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Post by burrunjor on Oct 31, 2022 15:29:04 GMT
Sorry to be a moaner about this but him getting control of it again has really pissed me off more than anything else re Doctor Who for years.
This is also coming from someone who didn't mind his first run remember. I actually think there is a lot to still enjoy in it.
However what annoys me now is he has the rights to it, so even if his second era is a flop, it doesn't matter. Anyone that wants to revive it years after will still have to go through him, meaning that the Fitzroy mentality will continue to dominate the franchise for the foreseeable.
It's so annoying as well, as now could have been the time for what I've been pushing for for years, an animated sequel to the classic era of DW, that starts with Paul McGann for a bit who then regenerates into a new 9th Doctor.
I would LOVE that so much. Animation could fix all the budget problems, we could get new writers who actually love the original. (I'm thinking 90s babies who grew up with classic who on video like me. That's a whole generation of fans that get ignored by the media, but who in some ways have a better understanding of the show than the older ones as they were free from prejudices about 80s who, fandom cliques etc. They are actually at the right age to make it now.)
Also with animation being more niche, we could actually get proper character actors to play the Doctor again.
The reason I say an animated Who sequel is likely is not only because of the catastrophic failure of Jodie era Who, but also because just as I predicted, animated sequels to live action shows are fast catching on. You see we are in an age of nostalgia, but the problem is a lot of these actors are too old to keep playing these characters anymore. However in animation that's not a problem.
There is going to be a Smallville animated series and an Ash Vs Evil Dead animated series with Bruce Campbell and Dana Delorenzo! (Really f*cking happy about that one!)
With this in mind, yes Classic Who which is still hugely popular among young people, hence why it outsells the revival, is ripe for a similar animated sequel, but I know what will happen. If it is made, it will have to go through f*cking RTD, and it will therefore have to be written by the usual Fitzroy Crowd wankers and their sychophants, and it will have stupid stories about the Doctor being a god, the Doctor falling in love with his companion, the Master being a sub Joker/ex boyfriend of the Doctor, guest appearances by River Song, crossover stories with New Who, the Time War, Jo Martin and other Hartnell Doctors, and what's worse is that these bastards will be f*cking thriving on annoying the fans when they stick these stupid things in.
I can just see Dick Briggs tweeting about how we are all Nazis and the type who marched on the capitol on Jan 06, and citing some f*cking obscure line in a Hartnell story where he said he was thousands of years old as proof of Jo Martin.
It's just so annoying. Why can't these bastards give someone else a go? Why can't they let other versions of DW exist? It really has made me bitter and annoying, and you know that no matter how bad things do get f*cked up, these usual twats on GB will support it like the slobbering, mindless cretins they are. UGH sorry it's just so annoying.
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Post by cyberhat on Oct 31, 2022 15:49:29 GMT
Doctor Who is now permanently stuck in it's Joel Schumacher era. Might be decades before it's allowed to even think about a Nolan era.
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Post by rushy on Oct 31, 2022 17:08:41 GMT
Mark Gatiss era when?
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Post by burrunjor on Oct 31, 2022 18:38:06 GMT
Doctor Who is now permanently stuck in it's Joel Schumacher era. Might be decades before it's allowed to even think about a Nolan era. That's the thing, lots of long running franchises have gone through bad patches but NONE of them got stuck in them the way DW did. As I have said before, it's because of DW's self loathin fandom. Sadly there just isn't the same level of respect for the classic era in DW fandom that there should be. Again that's because DW was subject to brutal bullying from the media to a greater extent than other series, but still that was 20 fecking years ago, you'd think people would have got over it by now. Sadly however I don't think we have ever really processed beyond a collective trauma of "we were bullied" and still have the idea that it was our own fault, rather than that the media were c*nts. If only there was someone who would point out how unfair the treatment DW got from the Beeb and the media was, how it actually did hold up to people in the 90s and early 00s in spite, and how it was really more snobs that looked down on in it, then maybe we could shake off this self loathing shit. I think it's funny when you compare DW fandom to Godzilla fandom. That awful site Doctor Who General used to slate Godzilla fans as manbabies who couldn't accept change, saying they were all Ian Levne's. Now I'm not sure if DW general is still running, but it was an attempt to satire DW fandom. However it mostly went after the NOT MY DOCTOR crowd and old who fans. (It did the famous times dw was ruined forever article.) However as I've pointed out Godzilla fandom went through EXACTLY the same bad patch as DW fandom. The 98 Godzilla is exactly the same as New Who. It's an in name only adaptation that tries to be more like something else that's popular ( in this case Jurassic Park) because its makers felt that Godzilla was too goofy to ever be taken seriously. It throws out so many time honoured traits like Godzilla's firey breath, etc. Difference is Godzilla fans didn't suck it all up in a desperate attempt to be accepted. They made it clear that was Godzilla in name only, and that they would not accept that. They weren't so desperate that anything with the name Godzilla on it was acceptable. It had to BE Godzilla, and so the next western version in 2014, was a proper Godzilla film, which was a big hit, proving that Godzilla is still a good idea, and that it's entirely the old fashioned effects that make the others feel old fashioned. Consequently Godzilla went on to be a big brand again. DW fans however as we know encouraged all of this shit, bought into the DW is all about change lie and as a result the Fitzroy Crowd just got worse and worse until there was nothing left of the Doctor at all and nobody is happy with it. Here, how Godzilla transitioned to modern day. DW on the other hand? Yeah just as seamless. Maybe a fandom of "manbabies" is actually a better thing to have as they from the looks of things won't sell out? |
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Post by iank on Oct 31, 2022 20:47:37 GMT
To be fair, I don't think anything else would have happened. They would have just canned the show (they wanted to when RTD left the first time, brainboxes that the BBC is!) and Chinballs drove the thing so far into the ground I can understand why he might be pissed seeing the show he revived so successfully (which is one of the cornerstones of his career) being fumbled so badly. It also remains to be seen what the outcome of the new 'global' Who will be, but he seems one of the few who really wants to see the show fulfill its potential. As I understand it he's leaving after series 15 so some new talent may come into it then.
Look, I'm not a fan, but playing devil's advocate I think the alternative would have been worse - leaving the show dead at Jodie. Eww.
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Post by cyberhat on Oct 31, 2022 22:35:33 GMT
Doctor Who is now permanently stuck in it's Joel Schumacher era. Might be decades before it's allowed to even think about a Nolan era. That's the thing, lots of long running franchises have gone through bad patches but NONE of them got stuck in them the way DW did. As I have said before, it's because of DW's self loathin fandom. Sadly there just isn't the same level of respect for the classic era in DW fandom that there should be. Again that's because DW was subject to brutal bullying from the media to a greater extent than other series, but still that was 20 fecking years ago, you'd think people would have got over it by now. Sadly however I don't think we have ever really processed beyond a collective trauma of "we were bullied" and still have the idea that it was our own fault, rather than that the media were c*nts. If only there was someone who would point out how unfair the treatment DW got from the Beeb and the media was, how it actually did hold up to people in the 90s and early 00s in spite, and how it was really more snobs that looked down on in it, then maybe we could shake off this self loathing shit. All true. I think it's also true of TV in general. Nobody gives a shit about I Claudius or the single plays of the 70's nowadays. Which is strange, as their better than The Sopranos or Breaking Bad. Intellectually, artistically in a different league. Try telling that to anyone currently working in British TV. They are only focused on being the lesser Netflix. Self-loathing Brit "creatives" is an illness way beyond Who. |
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Post by burrunjor on Oct 31, 2022 23:16:44 GMT
To be fair, I don't think anything else would have happened. They would have just canned the show (they wanted to when RTD left the first time, brainboxes that the BBC is!) and Chinballs drove the thing so far into the ground I can understand why he might be pissed seeing the show he revived so successfully (which is one of the cornerstones of his career) being fumbled so badly. It also remains to be seen what the outcome of the new 'global' Who will be, but he seems one of the few who really wants to see the show fulfill its potential. As I understand it he's leaving after series 15 so some new talent may come into it then. Look, I'm not a fan, but playing devil's advocate I think the alternative would have been worse - leaving the show dead at Jodie. Eww. I don't think it would have been worse. Leaving it dead after Jodie would have shown definitely "this is a failure. This all about change crap needs to stop, pandering needs to stop, if we do bring it back get a new team and a new approach in." If it does go on with RTD and become a success, then the failure of Jodie can be glossed over, same way the failure of Troughton's last season was forgotten about when Pertwee became big. Jodie and the Timeless shite will then just become an accepted part of it by the GB cucks and the vandalisation will continue in more discreet forms before the Fitzroy clique get cocky again. And just like before when RTD leaves, new talent will not be brought in. It will be his mates, not his old fitzroy mates, but others, his protege's who will continue the same shit he did, just like before. Also others did express interest in making Doctor Who including the creator of Babylon 5 who wanted to make it and even met with the BBC. I've no idea if he would have been good, but he couldn't have been worse and he is at least a sci fi writer who likes the original series. As soon as RTD took it over again however he had no chance. Also finally RTD has a cheek if he is annoyed at it going south. He is the one who brought that Fitzroy clique to the series, who made Chibbers part of it, he is the one who celebrated the gender bending casting, adding in a female Doctor in the novelisation of Rose, he is the one who liked Whovian Feminism, the one who dismissed people like me and you as just being a few saddos writing in thousands of complaints about a female Doctor under different names. Whilst he may not have written the shitty timeless children stories himself, he was absolutely complicit in the downfall of DW. |
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Post by rushy on Nov 1, 2022 1:49:11 GMT
All true. I think it's also true of TV in general. Nobody gives a shit about I Claudius or the single plays of the 70's nowadays. Which is strange, as their better than The Sopranos or Breaking Bad. Intellectually, artistically in a different league. That's both incorrect (I've met 20-year olds buzzing about I, Claudius on Twitter, so it's not like it's gone from the face of the earth) and doesn't take into account the passage of time. Who in the 1970s fussed over 1950s TV? The Sopranos is already becoming kind of niche, with Vince Gilligan now dominating where David Chase once stood. Even failures like Game of Thrones are better known internationally than Sopranos these days. But it will always have fans, just like I, Claudius. I see no reason to be this morose over the state of TV when there's still good shows being produced. Heck, even Disney has come out with Andor recently. |
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Post by burrunjor on Nov 1, 2022 9:01:58 GMT
All true. I think it's also true of TV in general. Nobody gives a shit about I Claudius or the single plays of the 70's nowadays. Which is strange, as their better than The Sopranos or Breaking Bad. Intellectually, artistically in a different league. That's both incorrect (I've met 20-year olds buzzing about I, Claudius on Twitter, so it's not like it's gone from the face of the earth) and doesn't take into account the passage of time. Who in the 1970s fussed over 1950s TV? The Sopranos is already becoming kind of niche, with Vince Gilligan now dominating where David Chase once stood. Even failures like Game of Thrones are better known internationally than Sopranos these days. But it will always have fans, just like I, Claudius. I see no reason to be this morose over the state of TV when there's still good shows being produced. Heck, even Disney has come out with Andor recently. I completely agree with this statement. Sorry Cyberhat, but I feel that middle aged fans who grew up with these things often have the worst view of how they have lasted. (Assuming you are middle aged LOL.) It's understandable, they grew up with them when they were mainstream and so to them, it does seem like a huge come down, but as Rushy points out, the same is true for all tv series from all generations. Buffy is not as mainstream as it was 20 years ago. Xena was once a huge, mainstream show. Now I'd say it is incredibly niche. All that matters is if these shows can still have cult followings decades after they were on the air, which I Claudius, Doctor Who, B7, Xena, Buffy etc all do, showing they have all lasted. That's IMO how the media often makes it look like DW was dead until Russell came along. Obviously yes it was no longer mainstream, as it hadn't been on the telly in 16 years, so yes New Who did restore it to that level of popularity, but it still had a huge following and had still made many new fans, many of whom had a better view of it than those who had grown up. Speaking from experience, me and other people my age I knew who loved Doctor Who in the 90s, were never embarrassed about it. We saw it as the old classic show that our parents liked, like say the Beatles or The Doors, IE a great thing from the past. All the Doctors were the Doctor to us, we didn't know anything about the JNT controversies or anything like that. We just liked the show. Honestly I think that if that generation had made DW, it would have been better than the 70s generation, who were too insecure because they'd seen it become a niche show, (which will happen to everything eventually.) |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2022 9:36:07 GMT
People obsess over RTD, but when you look at his era you'll find that most of the best stuff from it wasn't even written by him. I don't particularly like him as a person either.
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Post by ClockworkOcean on Nov 1, 2022 9:57:48 GMT
Look, I'm not a fan, but playing devil's advocate I think the alternative would have been worse - leaving the show dead at Jodie. Eww. To the many fans of all ages for whom the Timeless Child retcon is an absolute deal-breaker, it already is dead at Jodie (well, dead at Capaldi with nothing post-2017 considered canon). Trying to move on without first addressing the elephant in the room seems pointless to a substantial portion of the fanbase. People obsess over RTD, but when you look at his era you'll find that most of the best stuff from it wasn't even written by him. That's true. Thinking about it, Midnight is the only story written by him that would make it into my top 10 from his era. |
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Post by Spark Doll King on Nov 1, 2022 23:26:10 GMT
Well part of me is mildly happy that they have finally dropped the pretence of the last 12 years and just gave the show back to the man who work they have been ripping off every time nuwho dared try to evolve organically.
Now we can watch him f*ck it up, and there's every indication he will, then maybe we can finally, finally move on or at least just put this to bed.
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Post by zarius on Nov 2, 2022 10:27:12 GMT
People obsess over RTD, but when you look at his era you'll find that most of the best stuff from it wasn't even written by him. I don't particularly like him as a person either. |
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