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Post by RobFilth on Feb 27, 2021 10:41:13 GMT
I've always found it incredibly difficult to decide which one out of these three stories is the best one because they represent to me personally the absolute pinnacle of excellence within the 70's decade of Classic Series Stories.
Ladies and Gents, your votes if you please.
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Post by burrunjor on Feb 27, 2021 10:52:17 GMT
Got to be Inferno. Absolute masterpiece. I love the concept of alternate universes and I'd say Inferno is among the top 5 alternate universe stories ever written.
It's also among the most important.
The Star Trek episode with the beards established the whole, evil twin idea.
Flash of Two Worlds comic established the idea that previous versions of a character could take place in alternate universes.
Spider-Wars, the finale of Spider-Man TAS meanwhile established all the different versions of a hero coming together to save every universe type of story that is very popular nowadays. (that RTD would later use.)
Inferno meanwhile I think established the idea that you could actually show us the world ending in an alternate universe. So many stories since have used alternate universes to do that, and Inferno was the first and most effective IMO.
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Post by RobFilth on Feb 27, 2021 20:11:50 GMT
All Three of them are such outstanding stories I find it very difficult to choose between them.
Spearhead has the advantage that it's shot on film, so has a particularly gritty realism to it, however both Inferno and Seeds Of Doom possibly have the edge in that they are longer stories which don't sag for their duration.
Inferno is a true classic, it's one of the most grim, doom-laden stories out there and the plot twist half way through is superb, but I'm afraid I have to go for Seeds of Doom because it's by far the most violent Who story with the grimmest and most dark example of body horror. It also has the advantage over Inferno in that the print is better, I find it intensely annoying that the BBC lost the original colour prints to Inferno. Bastards. Keelers transformation into Krynoid and Chases detached morbid fascination really is horrifying stuff. Both stories are absolutely the best of the 70's in my opinion with little to elevate one above the other because they are both so darn good.
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Post by Bernard Marx on Mar 2, 2021 18:12:15 GMT
Inferno for me. Possibly the most unrelenting bleak and atmospheric story in the series history. A masterfully chilling sound design accompanied by Derbyshire’s masterful ambience, the bravura conceit of the parallel universe and an inexorable tension with few punches pulled places this as quite possibly the finest story of all time.
Spearhead and Seeds of Doom are excellent, but Inferno is something else. There’s something so ominous and disquieting about it which has nary been rivalled by other stories.
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Post by mott1 on Mar 2, 2021 20:36:57 GMT
Gotta be Inferno for me too! From the very first shot of the Doctor & Bessie being loomed over by the smokestacks it's almost perfect.
Everything about it - the dual role acting from the supporting cast - and Jon is at his absolute best too - the tension, the rare moments of comedy to ease the pressure, the primords (well alright, their early stage is better) - the eeriness of the alternate world. Even the slightly repetitive speeches where they try to stop Stahlmann aren't a big problem, they just show how obsessive & unyielding he is, in both worlds.
Brilliant stuff, I treasure my copy.
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Post by burrunjor on Mar 3, 2021 0:00:14 GMT
Gotta be Inferno for me too! From the very first shot of the Doctor & Bessie being loomed over by the smokestacks it's almost perfect. Everything about it - the dual role acting from the supporting cast - and Jon is at his absolute best too - the tension, the rare moments of comedy to ease the pressure, the primords (well alright, their early stage is better) - the eeriness of the alternate world. Even the slightly repetitive speeches where they try to stop Stahlmann aren't a big problem, they just show how obsessive & unyielding he is, in both worlds. Brilliant stuff, I treasure my copy. I'd say Inferno and Day of the Daleks are Jon's best performances. Him at his angry, indignant best. |
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Post by iank on Mar 3, 2021 1:18:19 GMT
Day is so f*cking underrated.
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Post by burrunjor on Mar 3, 2021 9:59:40 GMT
Day is so f*cking underrated. It is and it did inspire Terminator btw. Day of the Daleks served as the biggest inspiration for an X-Men Comic called Days of Future Past which revolves around evil robots taking over the world after a third world war. The Robots called Sentinels round people up into ghettos and concentration camps, but one mutant, Kitty Pryde is able to travel back to before the war started. She finds out it was ironically a mutant resistance fighter named Mystique who caused the war by killing a guy whose death she thought would help mutantkind. The author of Days of Future Past openly admitted to taking inspiration from Day of the Daleks, stating he was amazed he didn't get sued! Days of of Future Past would later go on to inspire Terminator meanwhile that came out shortly after. So from Doctor Who to X-Men to Terminator. (Days of Future Past was later adapted as a film in 2015, with people ironically thinking it ripped off the Terminator LOL.) I don't get why Day of the Daleks isn't hailed as one of the best Dalek stories? It's better than any revival era Dalek story. The only gripe I hear against it is that there are too few Daleks. WHAT! Haven't people always praised the mawkish Eccelston story for "showing us how dangerous ONE Dalek can be?" Doesn't Day do that by showing just a few Daleks plow their way through UNIT? I also don't get what Jon Pertwee and Katy Manning's problem with the story was? No way is that the worst story they were in. |
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Post by RobFilth on Mar 3, 2021 10:11:27 GMT
I don't get why Day of the Daleks isn't hailed as one of the best Dalek stories? It's better than any revival era Dalek story. The only gripe I hear against it is that there are too few Daleks. WHAT! Haven't people always praised the mawkish Eccelston story for "showing us how dangerous ONE Dalek can be?" I don't think it was that, I think it's the lame/disappointing Dalek voice delivery in the story, it sucks all the urgency away. I think the modern make over of "Day of the Daleks" is a huge improvement which notches it up to a Season 8 quality of story and makes it the classic it deserves to be, even if purists or Nick Briggs haters disagree with me. |
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Post by burrunjor on Mar 3, 2021 11:11:49 GMT
I don't get why Day of the Daleks isn't hailed as one of the best Dalek stories? It's better than any revival era Dalek story. The only gripe I hear against it is that there are too few Daleks. WHAT! Haven't people always praised the mawkish Eccelston story for "showing us how dangerous ONE Dalek can be?" I don't think it was that, I think it's the lame/disappointing Dalek voice delivery in the story, it sucks all the urgency away. I think the modern make over of "Day of the Daleks" is a huge improvement which notches it up to a Season 8 quality of story and makes it the classic it deserves to be, even if purists or Nick Briggs haters disagree with me. Nick Briggs does a good Dalek voice I'd never deny that. I'm just annoyed that he has hogged them for the past 30 years LOL. I'd like more variety among their voices than one man could ever provide. I didn't mind his voices being used in that story at all, but even then I don't think the voices ruined the story. The dynamic between the Controller and the Daleks alone is brilliant. |
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Post by RobFilth on Mar 3, 2021 11:14:22 GMT
Nick Briggs does a good Dalek voice I'd never deny that. I'm just annoyed that he has hogged them for the past 30 years LOL. I'd like more variety among their voices than one man could ever provide. I didn't mind his voices being used in that story at all, but even then I don't think the voices ruined the story. The dynamic between the Controller and the Daleks alone is brilliant. I know what you mean, he has become a bit of a one man show and because of that, his ego's gone a bit silly. Big Finish are pretty much a joke these days. |
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Post by burrunjor on Mar 3, 2021 12:38:48 GMT
Nick Briggs does a good Dalek voice I'd never deny that. I'm just annoyed that he has hogged them for the past 30 years LOL. I'd like more variety among their voices than one man could ever provide. I didn't mind his voices being used in that story at all, but even then I don't think the voices ruined the story. The dynamic between the Controller and the Daleks alone is brilliant. I know what you mean, he has become a bit of a one man show and because of that, his ego's gone a bit silly. Big Finish are pretty much a joke these days. I think that's what happens when people hold onto a franchise for too long. They become self indulgent because their past successes build up their egos, and they end up surrounded by fanboys and fangirls who are so desperate to work for them they will go along with everything. Another example is Bruce Timm. I don't know if you follow Batman cartoons, but back in the 90s Bruce Timm was the man. He did Batman the animated series and it was excellent. Everything that New Who is not. Faithful to the source material, not dated, didn't talk down to its audience (Despite being aimed at children) and had a wide range of stories. Sadly however Timm has been doing it for so long that he has now developed an ego, is surrounded by fanboys who kiss his ass and as a result his work has become self indulgent. His Killing Joke movie included an awkward sex scene between Batman and Batgirl (who for some reason he has always shipped. I just don't get these weird ships that develop, Doctor/Master Batman/Batgirl etc.) Similarly his Harley Quinn movie features what's basically a wank fantasy scene where Harley chains Robin to the bed and shags him. What's worse is Timm who has become quite a horny dog it would seem, even gave Harley two butt cracks! I think it's always best for people to move on. It's why I wasn't so opposed to JNT bringing in new talent (The problem was he was useless at finding it LOL.) In this respect I admire RTD for just leaving and never bothering to come back, save the odd story. |
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Post by iank on Mar 3, 2021 20:51:44 GMT
I never even noticed the difference in the voices...
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Post by Bernard Marx on Jul 15, 2021 5:12:36 GMT
Day is so fokking underrated. I don't get why Day of the Daleks isn't hailed as one of the best Dalek stories? It's better than any revival era Dalek story. The only gripe I hear against it is that there are too few Daleks. WHAT! Haven't people always praised the mawkish Eccelston story for "showing us how dangerous ONE Dalek can be?" Doesn't Day do that by showing just a few Daleks plow their way through UNIT? I also don't get what Jon Pertwee and Katy Manning's problem with the story was? No way is that the worst story they were in. When I first saw Day, I absolutely loved it, and I was aware at that point that its reputation wasn't the greatest (not that it was badly received- just regarded as a middling story). It's one of the best time-travel narratives the series ever did, and as you say, it's absolutely a benchmark for The Terminator and subsequent X-Men narratives. And yeah, it kicks the shit out of every new series Dalek entry by a long shot. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2021 10:33:35 GMT
Inferno is the best of the lot. I found Spearhead a bit boring the last time I watched it. To be honest Pertwee, while a thoroughly decent bloke, never really clicked with me as the Doctor. No offense to Caroline John, but I wish Zoe had stayed on during Season 7. It would have made the change a bit easier to take.
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