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Post by iank on Nov 17, 2023 4:20:33 GMT
Went to the cinema today to see Thanksgiving. A year after a fatal stampede at a Black Friday event, someone begins enacting vengeance against those he deems responsible. This throwback slasher flick does exactly what it says on the tin and is pretty enjoyable as a result. Cute girls, gorily OTT murders, dark humour and a madman in a mask. There's a reason for the formula, folks. It works. I had a fun time with this.
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Post by burrunjor on Nov 17, 2023 18:28:34 GMT
Okay watched all the Halloween movies up to 6 over the past week thanks to this thread.
Here's my opinion.
Halloween
I disregarded this for a while as I first saw it as a child and like a lot of children I was shallow, desperate for a gory film to show how hard I was LOL and wanted it to be non stop action so I kind of glossed over it as slow, not as scary as it was cracked up to be etc. Now watching it as an adult I can see how well constructed it is in terms of its direction, acting, and plot too. The opening scene has to be one of the most disturbing of any horror movie. The girl being attacked when she is so helpless and by someone she knows is bad enough, but when the mask is ripped off and you see that it was a child that killed her, f*ck me! Even knowing what was going to happen it was still chilling. The other kills meanwhile are gruesome and protracted in a way that makes it more real as the people don't just die instantly, but it doesn't descend into the torture porn of later sequels. Also some shots like Michael walking slowly towards Jamie Lee Curtis from the house, or the ending where we hear his breathing over the different locations letting us know he could be anywhere are truly nightmarish. John Carpenter is my favourite director and I'm glad I can appreciate what many consider to be his masterpiece now.
Also Jamie Lee Curtis is brilliant as a strong, down to earth girl whose fear and bravery seem genuine, but who reacts in a way that is a bit more relatable. She's not a superhero, or even a badass, but she fights back when she has no choice and does whatever she can to help the kids. Donald Pleasance meanwhile is Donald Pleasance. It's funny because he was the third choice, after Peter Cushing who was doing Star Wars and Christopher Lee who I think was in his snobby phase towards horror films LOL. Whilst they both would have been excellent in the role, neither I think would have been as good. Cushing whilst capable of playing all types, I think in that role it would have been tempting to make him a Van Helsing expy, a righteous character. Lee meanwhile would have been too big and imposing against Michael. Pleasance however has the right blend of at times being gentle, but also having a slightly unnerving quality to him where he may know more about Michael than he is letting on.
Halloween 2
Sorry not a fan of this one at all really. I HATE the twist of him being Jamie Lee Curtis' brother. It was a bit too much of a soap opera twist where everybody has to be related. I also felt that this one was a bit more of a generic slasher, and some of the kills were too nasty. The girl getting her face in the steaming sauna bit is too horrible. I actually had to skip it. I know that sounds extremely hypocritical of me given my posts about wanting to be tortured by Alti or Maze from Lucifer, and my love of Evil Dead LOL, but let me explain.
Well the Alti, Mazekeen torture isn't real torture. Alti's is her grabbing guys by their stab wounds (near their balls which she squeezes) and forcing a kiss on them, Maze's is her sitting on top of her chained victim in tight leather saying how much she is going to hurt them before shagging them for hours. I could definitely not break after ten hours of those methods. Meanwhile as for the violence in a lot of other things I watch, well I think there are a number of ways you can get away with it.
If it's tastefully done, you don't see much gore, but it's still shocking like in Buffy, Classic Who, New Who and even the first Halloween, then that's fine. (There might be some exceptions like Warren, but even then the odd exception is fine as that just makes it all the more shocking.)
Another way is for the violence to be so over the top like in Evil Dead where people explode into a puddle of blood, or it is a demon with supernatural powers killing someone are so over the top, that it is not only taken to a level of fantasy and cartoonish violence, but it becomes more of a special effects spectacle.
However this type of violence is gritty and real, and prolonged and the type of thing even with Michael who is not as overtly over the top like a Deadite that could happen and so it hits closer to home for me. Just to be clear I'm not doing a full Mary Whitehouse and saying this type of violence in movies is wrong LOL, that it will warp people or those who do it are evil. I understand why some writers and directors want to go that extra mile and it can be effective at times, but for me, I don't know I found this too gruesome.
Here it is BTW
I didn't have to watch it to upload it LOL. Do you guys think I'm a pussy or is this too gruesome? Either way I'd definitely rather be tortured by Maze.
I also don't like the ending to this of having Michael get blown up and that being that. Turned him from the spooky boogeyman who could be lurking anywhere at the end of the first movie, to a third rate Buffy monster that you just blow up and that's that.
Halloween 3
Not a bad film overall. I sooo wish they had gone in this direction. An anthology of horror films centered around Halloween is an inspired idea in terms of the mythology and even just old horror films they could have dabbled in. I think the problem is though that Halloween 3 would have had to have been a classic on a par with the first to make people forget about Michael and as it is, it being just a good film wasn't good enough. It's funny though because this was the first Halloween film I ever saw, and I remember being so f*cking annoyed that it didn't have Michael Myers in it.
Halloween 4
The best sequel to be honest. It is a bit contrived that Michael and Loomis survived and in many ways it does just hit the same beats as the second, but overall it's so much better done. The kills are more akin to Evil Dead here which is a bit jarring from the first, but I think works better given Michael by this stage is obviously completely supernatural. Danielle Harris is also an absolutely superb actress who is just brings so much to the character. She's quite unusually good for someone so young.
However what really puts this one ahead is the ending which is actually the best of any entry in the series. I just love Donald Pleasance's performance when he sees what Jamie has done, also despite the supernatural elements being 100 percent established at this point, there is still the ambiguity of the first film of has Michael's evil possessed her (maybe Michael was never evil and it was some dark force that has now left one host for another.) Or was it the trauma of what happened that has broken her? Either way this absolutely 100 percent should have been the end, or they should have done a movie with a grown up Jamie as the killer. Instead however we got.
Halloween 5
Now I do like this one. It is very well paced, and has some of the most frightening moments like Loomis using Danielle Harris to lure Michael out. The way he plays it you really do think he's lost it at that point. Also it has the second best ending of the series. I liked the idea of the mysterious figure helping Michael. It was so much better not knowing who he was, and the ending where she looks at his empty cell and just cries "noooo" is both heart breaking and terrifying. To me that would have been another brilliant ending, not knowing what will happen, but like the first movie there is the terror that Michael is out there, and that perhaps there are other dark forces too.
It's not an essential sequel, but a good one nonetheless. The same cannot be said of the next entry.
Halloween 6
Both versions of this film are absolute f*cking shit. They reach Timeless Children level of f*cking it up, removing any agency Michael had, turning him into a generic Buffy villain created by some random demon, and don't even get me started on Jamie's fate in both versions. Having Michael knock her up is without doubt the worst idea in the series. I'm not surprised they went for an alternate sequel after this. If only DW fans would realise the same.
Basically for me there are 3 good Michael Myers films, but in all honesty as much as I may enjoy 5, my ideal view on the Halloween series would have been.
Halloween 1
Halloween 4 as the sequel that rounds off Michael Myers fate and ends with Jamie as the new killer.
Then do an anthology series, starting with Halloween 3.
Everything else with Michael is either average or downright terrible.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2023 0:42:04 GMT
Lethal Weapon (1987) Was saving this for December since it takes place at Christmas, but after watching all the sequels I was in the mood to watch this. This isn't the comedy driven films that the latter sequels were, but something far deeper and personal. I do like typical 80s action movies, but this and Die Hard really redefined the genre. Instead of one man armies who were indestructible killing machines these two films presented heroes with real flaws. Riggs is suicidal for the first half and I must say as someone who went through that hell that scene where he almost shoots himself in the mouth is quite harrowing and relatable. I also love the electric shock scene where he's visibly scared by it rather than cracking one liners and laughing like some other "cool"characters do in action movies. This movie isn't quite as comedic as the others which is probably why 2 is still my favourite of the bunch, but in terms of development and stakes this is the most intense and gripping in the series. I adore the quieter moments and the scenes between Riggs and Murtaugh. I honestly think Riggs changes his mind about killing himself after he spends time with Murtaugh and his family (his older daughter is HOT.) Gary Busey is also the best villain of the series, an intimidating but strangely likeable character. The rest of it is excellent, possibly even the best film of 1987 which is obviously up for debate considering the other films that came out that year. I just think this ticks all the boxes and feels strangely modern (in a good way) while still having all that 80s awesomeness we all love. 9/10  |
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Post by rushy on Nov 18, 2023 1:50:08 GMT
I used to absolutely love the original, but repeated viewings have made me gravitate more towards Halloween 2. I find the hospital setting creepier, and I like that Pleasence is more involved. I'm much more invested in him than Jamie Lee Curtis. Plus, it retains the same atmosphere whilst having a faster pace, which again is helpful for viewings when you already know what's what, and get tired of the same slow-moving shots across Haddonfield. Halloween 3 Not a bad film overall. I sooo wish they had gone in this direction. An anthology of horror films centered around Halloween is an inspired idea in terms of the mythology and even just old horror films they could have dabbled in. Yeah, agreed. There was a solid concept there. However, I think Carpenter shot himself in the foot by starting the anthology from the third film rather than the second. People had a built-in expectation now, and he let them down. BTW, Nigel Kneale wrote this film. Halloween 4 The best sequel to be honest. It is a bit contrived that Michael and Loomis survived and in many ways it does just hit the same beats as the second, but overall it's so much better done. The kills are more akin to Evil Dead here which is a bit jarring from the first, but I think works better given Michael by this stage is obviously completely supernatural. Danielle Harris is also an absolutely superb actress who is just brings so much to the character. She's quite unusually good for someone so young. However what really puts this one ahead is the ending which is actually the best of any entry in the series. I just love Donald Pleasance's performance when he sees what Jamie has done, also despite the supernatural elements being 100 percent established at this point, there is still the ambiguity of the first film of has Michael's evil possessed her (maybe Michael was never evil and it was some dark force that has now left one host for another.) Or was it the trauma of what happened that has broken her? Either way this absolutely 100 percent should have been the end, or they should have done a movie with a grown up Jamie as the killer. Instead however we got. I'm fully in agreement with this. In my mind, only the first four films count. I do think the production is considerably less impressive here than in the films involving Carpenter, and the storyline is kind of a retread of the original. But it's worth it for Pleasence's more theatrical performance, and Danielle Harris stealing the show. This film is interminable bullshit. My least favourite sequel by a mile, full of irritating Friday the 13th-tier characters and half-baked ideas that they left for the next writer to sort out. f*ck this movie. Halloween 6 Both versions of this film are absolute f*cking shit. You're not wrong, but I sympathise with the writer. He desperately tried to do justice to the franchise, and his script was butchered by the director and producers. Pleasence specifically came out of retirement because he thought this was the best Halloween script since the original. Christopher Lee was supposed to play his nemesis, but they were too cheap to get him. Quick thoughts on the rest of the franchise: H20 - It's alright, but it's basically just another Halloween 4, now with Curtis in the Pleasence role. Resurrection - Basically an unrelated slasher with the Halloween name tacked on it. The way they just kill Laurie off in the first 10 minutes is unforgivable. Zombie remake #1 - I don't hate Rob, but it's a horrible idea to give him the Halloween franchise. His aesthetics are about as far removed from Carpenter's minimalism as you can be. Zombie remake #2 - This one's almost impossible to get through due to the viciousness and neverending screaming/swearing from Laurie. Miserable film. Halloween 2018 - It's alright, but it's basically just another Halloween H20, now with old Curtis in the young Curtis role. Halloween Kills - Very cringeworthy. Poor dialogue. Curtis is barely in it. They have a guy wearing a Donald Pleasence mask. Halloween Ends - Never bothered watching it. |
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Post by burrunjor on Nov 21, 2023 13:17:26 GMT
I used to absolutely love the original, but repeated viewings have made me gravitate more towards Halloween 2. I find the hospital setting creepier, and I like that Pleasence is more involved. I'm much more invested in him than Jamie Lee Curtis. Plus, it retains the same atmosphere whilst having a faster pace, which again is helpful for viewings when you already know what's what, and get tired of the same slow-moving shots across Haddonfield. Halloween 3 Not a bad film overall. I sooo wish they had gone in this direction. An anthology of horror films centered around Halloween is an inspired idea in terms of the mythology and even just old horror films they could have dabbled in. Yeah, agreed. There was a solid concept there. However, I think Carpenter shot himself in the foot by starting the anthology from the third film rather than the second. People had a built-in expectation now, and he let them down. BTW, Nigel Kneale wrote this film. Halloween 4 The best sequel to be honest. It is a bit contrived that Michael and Loomis survived and in many ways it does just hit the same beats as the second, but overall it's so much better done. The kills are more akin to Evil Dead here which is a bit jarring from the first, but I think works better given Michael by this stage is obviously completely supernatural. Danielle Harris is also an absolutely superb actress who is just brings so much to the character. She's quite unusually good for someone so young. However what really puts this one ahead is the ending which is actually the best of any entry in the series. I just love Donald Pleasance's performance when he sees what Jamie has done, also despite the supernatural elements being 100 percent established at this point, there is still the ambiguity of the first film of has Michael's evil possessed her (maybe Michael was never evil and it was some dark force that has now left one host for another.) Or was it the trauma of what happened that has broken her? Either way this absolutely 100 percent should have been the end, or they should have done a movie with a grown up Jamie as the killer. Instead however we got. I'm fully in agreement with this. In my mind, only the first four films count. I do think the production is considerably less impressive here than in the films involving Carpenter, and the storyline is kind of a retread of the original. But it's worth it for Pleasence's more theatrical performance, and Danielle Harris stealing the show. This film is interminable bullshit. My least favourite sequel by a mile, full of irritating Friday the 13th-tier characters and half-baked ideas that they left for the next writer to sort out. f*ck this movie. Halloween 6 Both versions of this film are absolute f*cking shit. You're not wrong, but I sympathise with the writer. He desperately tried to do justice to the franchise, and his script was butchered by the director and producers. Pleasence specifically came out of retirement because he thought this was the best Halloween script since the original. Christopher Lee was supposed to play his nemesis, but they were too cheap to get him. Quick thoughts on the rest of the franchise: H20 - It's alright, but it's basically just another Halloween 4, now with Curtis in the Pleasence role. Resurrection - Basically an unrelated slasher with the Halloween name tacked on it. The way they just kill Laurie off in the first 10 minutes is unforgivable. Zombie remake #1 - I don't hate Rob, but it's a horrible idea to give him the Halloween franchise. His aesthetics are about as far removed from Carpenter's minimalism as you can be. Zombie remake #2 - This one's almost impossible to get through due to the viciousness and neverending screaming/swearing from Laurie. Miserable film. Halloween 2018 - It's alright, but it's basically just another Halloween H20, now with old Curtis in the young Curtis role. Halloween Kills - Very cringeworthy. Poor dialogue. Curtis is barely in it. They have a guy wearing a Donald Pleasence mask. Halloween Ends - Never bothered watching it. Yes I'm aware Nigel Kneale wrote 3, though he only came up with the bare bones story. Most of it was rewritten. I posted a bit of an interview with John Carpenter on my Nigel Kneale thread that was quite interesting. Showed what an absolute asshole he was too. What kind of discussions did you have with Nigel Kneale about his script, before and after changes were made to it?
We just let him write it. His first draft wasn’t very sharp, and it had a lot of British stuff that no one understood. The main character works in a British hospital where no one gets healed. I’m not quite sure what that means: Is it a poor area? Is it a poor hospital? Sounds odd. We had a director at that point, Tommy Lee Wallace. And he began to work with Nigel on the rewrites. But Nigel Kneale didn’t want to change anything of his precious writing. And it wasn’t up to what we needed it to be. So we worked on it, Tommy Lee and I. Nigel Kneale is a brilliant writer, but by the time I met him, he was pretty irascible, and mean. He was a mean character. He started making fun of Jack Arnold, the director of the original Creature From the Black Lagoon. At that point, Jack Arnold had lost a leg. And Nigel made fun of him for that. Terrible. [Nigel] thought he was above us, us horror filmmakers.
That’s striking, since your Prince of Darkness is an homage to Kneale’s work.
He didn’t care about any of that. If he didn’t do it? Bullshit.
But your estimation of his work didn’t change over time.
No, I really loved his original stuff. I just think he’s groundbreaking … but unpleasant to work with! [Laughs.]PS I think that Prince of Darkness is vastly superior to anything Kneale wrote. I'll give the Stone Tape and the Road credit for being very original concepts, but honestly I return to Prince of Darkness far more often, then again I am a huge Carpenter fan. One thing I will say that is terrible about Halloween 5 is the way they killed Nancy. I liked her a lot, she was a great, resourceful protagonist in the 4th film and she kind of reminded me of Elizabeth Shue. I'd bet anything Maxil would like her. I've never seen someone so 80s LOL. I still don't think 5 comes close to the awfulness of 6. I'd take a generic but well made slasher over a shitty Chibnall attempt to smash things up. |
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Post by rushy on Nov 21, 2023 13:52:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2023 16:05:38 GMT
How did you guys get the DVD/Blu ray of the original movie? I've looked for the first film in the UK and it looks like the only way to get it is to buy an import or a second hand copy of an older DVD.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2023 18:25:47 GMT
Tonight's Christmas movie and a chance to obsess over Phoebe Cates once again   |
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Post by rushy on Nov 21, 2023 18:37:08 GMT
How did you guys get the DVD/Blu ray of the original movie? I've looked for the first film in the UK and it looks like the only way to get it is to buy an import or a second hand copy of an older DVD. bought mine from a sci-fi shop in Stockholm |
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Post by iank on Nov 21, 2023 21:00:46 GMT
I think you mean Rachel, Burrunjour, not Nancy. To be fair, Moustapha Akkad later admitted they screwed up and that killing her was a mistake.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2023 10:07:18 GMT
Just came across this two star review for Ferris Bueller's Day Off:
"Entertaining, but with a nearly subliminal propaganda message. FBDO is a thinly veiled advertisement for Reagan-era policy. You may have sat mummified through the economics/history classes featured in the movie, much like the students, but Ben Stein, a notorious rich-guy conservative walks you through failed tariff policies of the New Deal, the Laffer Curve used to justify lowering tax rates on rich people under Reagan and "voo-doo economics". Ferris himself has not interest in what he deems "European Socialism" -- one main reason he skips school.
And Ferris, his parents, his girlfriend, and especially his best friend are all upper middle class -- living among manicured lawns in affluent homogeneous suburbs. Ferris flaunts the rules (think deregulating the S&Ls which leads to further deregulating most of the financial system -- I won't go into later torture & election denial here). They all go to Chicago proper for entertainment only, where the inner city denizens are all to happy to dance along to the original MAGA tunes. No welfare queens among these people!
I could go on about the symbolism of the red Ferrari: 1980s excesses, an American economy headed toward 35 trillion in debt (but keep those wealth taxes low!) and earth ecology in free fall, but this is a comedy after all. Let that Ferris smile beguile you.
[Note: I searched in vain for a review that came close to this kind of analysis -- nada.]"
Huh?
"I searched in vain for a review that came close to this kind of analysis - nada"
Jeez, I wonder why?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2023 10:15:48 GMT
How did you guys get the DVD/Blu ray of the original movie? I've looked for the first film in the UK and it looks like the only way to get it is to buy an import or a second hand copy of an older DVD. bought mine from a sci-fi shop in Stockholm Awesome. I'll just book my flight then... |
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Post by iank on Nov 23, 2023 20:51:17 GMT
Sent off for a bunch of Vincent Price movies. I've seen a couple of his (Last Man on Earth and Theatre of Blood, both of which I liked) but I feel I am far too unfamiliar with most of his when compared to the likes of Cushing and Lee.
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Post by iank on Nov 25, 2023 21:20:39 GMT
Saw April Fool's Day again last night. A bunch of college kids head over to a private island owned by one of their wealthiest friends for an April Fool's party and weekend getaway. But what starts as a lot of jolly japes soon turns deadly serious when members of the group start to disappear one by one... This tongue in cheek mid 80s slasher has long been a fave of mine, and still is. Great cast including Deborah Foreman, Amy Steel (the heroine in Friday the 13th Part 2) and Biff from BTTF, very likeable characters, quality production and great music. And about that twist... April Fool's Day is still killer.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2023 22:00:48 GMT
I watched a bit of Half Blood Prince on ITV before I switched over to Who (what a stupid mistake). Out of the Harry Potter Yates films it's probably the one I find the most enjoyable. The imagery of a rundown gringotts is nicely done. These films have always had an appealing gothic look to them. Evanna Lynch is also one of the best additions made in the Yates era. Still not one of my favourite in the series, but I might sit down properly soon with a nice box of chocolates, switch off all the lights and enjoy this film from the beginning.
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