Why did Death in Heaven suck so much?

[UncleDeadly]

The nuwho Zygons are pathetic. Part of what made the originals so effective is that their facial features are a sort of distorted mockery of the human face. It's that classic horror trick of taking something that's familiar and twisting it so that it becomes half-recognisable and half-alien which creates disturbance in us because we can't quite process what we're seeing. The fear of the unknown, effectively.

For all their money and resources, the nuwho lot can't even get that right. They have the means yet they can't grasp the concept, so what we get is the outline of a Zygon with a dopey looking human face sticking out of it. The effect is risible, like something out of The Muppets or Round the Bend.

Another possibility is, of course, that they are labouring under a Whitehouseian edict from the upper echelons of the BBC to avoid anything "Too scary" which would go some way toward explaining a lot of the toothless nonsense we've been having to stomach in the name of "Doctor Who" since 2005.

When i see nuwho Zygons, i see this:-

[burrunjor]

Sept 4, 2024 13:13:36 GMT UncleDeadly said:

The nuwho Zygons are pathetic. Part of what made the originals so effective is that their facial features are a sort of distorted mockery of the human face. It's that classic horror trick of taking something that's familiar and twisting it so that it becomes half-recognisable and half-alien which creates disturbance in us because we can't quite process what we're seeing. The fear of the unknown, effectively.



For all their money and resources, the nuwho lot can't even get that right. They have the means yet they can't grasp the concept, so what we get is the outline of a Zygon with a dopey looking human face sticking out of it. The effect is risible, like something out of The Muppets or Round the Bend.



Another possibility is, of course, that they are labouring under a Whitehouseian edict from the upper echelons of the BBC to avoid anything "Too scary" which would go some way toward explaining a lot of the toothless nonsense we've been having to stomach in the name of "Doctor Who" since 2005.



When i see nuwho Zygons, i see this:-

I genuinely do think that is the reason for a lot of it. You only have to look at how wimpy the Doctor is physically in new who. He never does any fighting. You might think at first, well the Doctor isn't much an action hero, in truth he is. He's not an overt one like say Batman or Xena, but he has to be able to defend himself. 

All the Doctor punch badguys, bash them over the head, even the 7th Doctor used Venusian karate to knock people out. 

In new who he never beats the shit out of badguys again and relies more on the sonic instead.

[Cherry Pepsi Maxil]

Having them run about in the lovely sunshine was a mistake too. One of my favourite scenes in Terror is when one of them is running from UNIT soliders in the woods. The lack of leaves on the trees and the miserable weather lends itself to the creepiness of the scene as does the unsettling score. Camfield shot the Zygon from far away which I find better than a close up. It makes it feel a bit like real life when you can't quite see what things are in settings such as this.




This is shite and we all know it:




It's the "I've just unexpectantly shat myself" look.

[megalomaniacal]

Sept 4, 2024 15:30:59 GMT Cherry Pepsi Maxil said:

Having them run about in the lovely sunshine was a mistake too. One of my favourite scenes in Terror is when one of them is running from UNIT soliders in the woods. The lack of leaves on the trees and the miserable weather lends itself to the creepiness of the scene as does the unsettling score. Camfield shot the Zygon from far away which I find better than a close up. It makes it feel a bit like real life when you can't quite see what things are in settings such as this.




This is shite and we all know it:




It's the "I've just unexpectantly shat myself" look.

There's something very "Kenneth Williams" about that expression...

[Cherry Pepsi Maxil]

What's that muck under his mouth? Was he eating beans?

[rushy]

They vomit each time they change shape. Jemma Redgrave had to do it once.

[Cherry Pepsi Maxil]

I don't recall that happening in Terror. Are you sure they're not just vomiting because of the script?

[Kimbergoth]

Death in Heaven was an absolute trainwreck, even by Moffat's standards. Missy could've been iconic, but they reduced her to a quippy plot device. And don't get me started on the Cyber Brig nonsense. Talk about jumping the shark 😒

But the real nail in the coffin was all those insufferable speeches. Moffat clearly thinks he's the second coming of Shakespeare, but it just came off as try-hard and boring AF. Give me substance over style any day! 

What did y'all think? Did anything redeem this hot mess of an episode for you?

[burrunjor]

Sept 9, 2024 19:07:58 GMT Kimbergoth said:

Death in Heaven was an absolute trainwreck, even by Moffat's standards. Missy could've been iconic, but they reduced her to a quippy plot device. And don't get me started on the Cyber Brig nonsense. Talk about jumping the shark 😒

But the real nail in the coffin was all those insufferable speeches. Moffat clearly thinks he's the second coming of Shakespeare, but it just came off as try-hard and boring AF. Give me substance over style any day! 

What did y'all think? Did anything redeem this hot mess of an episode for you?

Nothing could ever redeem it. It hasn't in 10 years since LOL. 

Moffat's dialogue meanwhile is legendarily pretentious. The worst offender for that is Hellbent though. Dear god I wanted to put my foot through my tv the dialogue drove me up the wall.

[Kimbergoth]

Sept 9, 2024 21:23:30 GMT burrunjor said:

Sept 9, 2024 19:07:58 GMT Kimbergoth said:

Death in Heaven was an absolute trainwreck, even by Moffat's standards. Missy could've been iconic, but they reduced her to a quippy plot device. And don't get me started on the Cyber Brig nonsense. Talk about jumping the shark 😒

But the real nail in the coffin was all those insufferable speeches. Moffat clearly thinks he's the second coming of Shakespeare, but it just came off as try-hard and boring AF. Give me substance over style any day! 

What did y'all think? Did anything redeem this hot mess of an episode for you?

Nothing could ever redeem it. It hasn't in 10 years since LOL. 

Moffat's dialogue meanwhile is legendarily pretentious. The worst offender for that is Hellbent though. Dear god I wanted to put my foot through my tv the dialogue drove me up the wall.

Oh, Burrunjor gets it! That post had me cracking up. Nothing could redeem "Death in Heaven"? Preach! That episode was a dumpster fire from start to finish. And don't even get me started on Moffat's dialogue. Pretentious doesn't even begin to cover it! 😒

It's like he thinks he's Shakespeare reincarnated or something. Newsflash, Moffat: you're not fooling anyone with your pseudo-intellectual babble! And "Hell Bent"? Oh boy, that was a special kind of torture. Every line felt like nails on a chalkboard. I swear, if I hear "the hybrid" one more time, I might actually lose it! But hey, at least we're not alone in our suffering, right? Misery loves company, after all! 😂

Maybe we should start a support group for survivors of Moffat's dialogue. We could call it "Moffat's Mangled Metaphors Anonymous"! What do you think? 

[burrunjor]

Sept 9, 2024 21:42:11 GMT Kimbergoth said:

Sept 9, 2024 21:23:30 GMT burrunjor said:

Nothing could ever redeem it. It hasn't in 10 years since LOL. 

Moffat's dialogue meanwhile is legendarily pretentious. The worst offender for that is Hellbent though. Dear god I wanted to put my foot through my tv the dialogue drove me up the wall.

Oh, Burrunjor gets it! That post had me cracking up. Nothing could redeem "Death in Heaven"? Preach! That episode was a dumpster fire from start to finish. And don't even get me started on Moffat's dialogue. Pretentious doesn't even begin to cover it! 😒

It's like he thinks he's Shakespeare reincarnated or something. Newsflash, Moffat: you're not fooling anyone with your pseudo-intellectual babble! And "Hell Bent"? Oh boy, that was a special kind of torture. Every line felt like nails on a chalkboard. I swear, if I hear "the hybrid" one more time, I might actually lose it! But hey, at least we're not alone in our suffering, right? Misery loves company, after all! 😂

Maybe we should start a support group for survivors of Moffat's dialogue. We could call it "Moffat's Mangled Metaphors Anonymous"! What do you think? 

Copy and pasted from an old post I did, which in turn was copy and pasted from DW transcripts site.

RASSILON: The Sisterhood of Karn has no business in this chamber, or on this planet.

OHILA: I heard the Doctor had come home. One so loves fireworks.

GASTRON: There was a saying, sir, in the Time War.

RASSILON: A saying?

GASTRON: The first thing you will notice about the Doctor of War is he's unarmed. For many, it's also the last.

CLARA: Is this a story or did this really happen?

DOCTOR: Every story ever told really happened. Stories are where memories go when they're forgotten.

OHILA: I thought I'd find you down here. Old times.

DOCTOR: You're a long way from Karn.

OHILA: At the end of everything, one must expect the company of immortals.

OHILA: Why did you banish him? Was it punishment, or for your own protection? Or are you just being cruel? Or just being cowardly?

OHILA: You have gone too far. You have broken every code you ever lived by.

DOCTOR: After all this time, after everything I've done, don't you think the universe owes me this?

OHILA: Owes you what? All you're doing is giving her hope.

DOCTOR: Since when is hope a bad thing?

OHILA: Hope is a terrible thing on the scaffold.

ASHILDR: No, I didn't. Neither did you. She did. She died for who she was and who she loved. She fell where she stood. It was sad, and it was beautiful. And it is over. We have no right to change who she was.

CLARA: Why? Nobody's ever safe. I've never asked you for that, ever. These have been the best years of my life, and they are mine. Tomorrow is promised to no one, Doctor, but I insist upon my past. I am entitled to that. It's mine.

Jesus Christ that is f*cking pretentious. Can I just say I f*cking hate Ohilia. One of the most annoying characters in the series and it is 100 percent the cringey, clunky "I'm trying to get a tears in the rain type speech" dialogue Moffat gives her.