It's rather telling that this post is more about the Joker then whatever the f*ck RTD is doing with the Master.
All I'll say thank f*ck it's not the Rani. They've already pissed on the Master's grave, it can't get any worse for me.
As for the Joker, I'm not shore why he's become so synonymous Chaos as he's not actually chaotic. Marvel's Carnage is chaos obsessed. He actively goes out of his way to do things at random or on a whim, and actually got pissy with the Joker's plans in a crossover.
I think it comes from his conversation with Harvey in the Dark Knight but I think people strangely take the Joker at his word in that scene when they shouldn't. The Joker is a man without boundaries to hold him back. He can and will do or say anything to achieve his goals. In that scene with Harvey, he's lying and telling Harvey what he needs to hear turn him into Two-Face and becomes his Ace against Batman.
The Joker isn't chaos, because Batman isn't order. Batman is Justice and by extension the Joker is Injustice. He's the embodiment of life isn't fair. Of every bad day and unfair act in life. Of the fact that no matter how hard we try, no matter how good we are, life can just f*ck us over and undo all our hard work in a flash. As he himself once put it "It's all a joke! Everything anybody ever valued or struggled for... it's all a monstrous, demented gag!"
I remember that Batman/Spider-Man crossover comic. I enjoyed it a lot.
It wasn't chaos Carnage and Joker fell out over. It was more that the Joker preferred theatrics, whilst Carnage was all about the crunch in ripping people apart. Kind of like Angelus and Spike in that respect if you've seen Angel. In the end the Joker is shown to be more genuinely chaotic as Cletus Kasady is just a pathetic little coward under the symbiote who lashes out to feel strong (as that was how he escaped both his abusive parents and home.) However when the Joker is willing to unleash a bomb that will destroy the city, Carnage's bottle breaks, allowing Batman to get free and beat him up.
Meanwhile the Joker isn't always chaos. He's been through many reinventions over the years.
The original Joker from the very earliest Batman comics was a borderline supernatural villain. He was eerily calm, never laughed (though he had a permanent grin.) His origins were completely mysterious, no explanation for his white face, perma grin etc. He also didn't care about Batman at all, and despite his thin frame was formidably strong, and easily capable of besting Batman in a straight fight.
In his first story, the Joker simply announces he is going to kill someone at a certain time and then does so, and each time despite the police and later Batman's attempts to protect his victims, he manages it. At times it almost seems as though he does so using supernatural abilities, like when one of his victims is playing cards with a cop and assumes he is safe when the clock strikes only to see the cop is the joker when he looks up. It almost looks like the Joker has possessed him the way the cop suddenly has that nightmarish grin despite looking normal before hand. Scenes like this coupled with his ghoulish and unexplained appearance, borderline super strength, mysterious origins and no motives beyond wanting to kill innocent people, (and the fact that many of Batman's early foes were supernatural like the Red Monk or at least drawn from horror movies.) Certainly at least allow the reader to see him as a demonic clown like an early Pennywise, but again it's never said for sure and he can also just be seen as a crafty, albeit mysterious crook who loves playing games as some of his tricks like his laughing gas are explained.
See how methodical and calculating and cold this Joker is? He may not even be crazy, more of a sociopath who loves his games.
This version sadly has never been completely represented on the big screen, though elements of him have popped up in some versions. Heath Ledgers version for instance kept up the genuine mystery, whilst Cameron Monaghan's second version in Gotham, Jeremiah was similar to this Joker in terms of being very calm, eerie, and also being incredibly strong (being able to overpower a badass ninja babe who regularly beat the shit out of the Penguin and Solomon Grundy effortlessly in a straight fight.) However Ledger obviously lacked the borderline supernatural qualities, and Monaghan lacked the mysterious qualities as we saw him before he became the Joker.
This version of the Joker didn't last long as censors came down hard on comics being too violent, so they retooled the Joker to be a silly, harmless prankster opposite the lighter Batman. This period lasted from the 50s and the 60s. The Joker during this period wasn't quite such a lunatic. He DID try to kill Batman, but it was almost always in ludicrous ways, and he also often wanted to rob for money and fame, certainly not chaos. Most of his crimes didn't actually kill people and were just for laughs and he would always be humiliated in over the top ways. Still this Joker did have an impact on later versions. This was the first time he became obsessed with Batman in a way as he wanted to prove he was superior, and even mentioned he enjoyed fighting him. However in terms of physical fights this Joker was a total wimp who would get beaten up by Robin, which again became how we'd often see the character. This version also brought in the characters trademark maniacal laugh. Also this finally revealed his origins with the Red Hood story.
This version was represented perfectly with Cesar Romero's performance in the 60s Batman.
The 70s tried to blend both of these versions together somewhat. The Joker for this decade (my favourite) was still a campy villain. His crimes were still for his own fame and vanity, he saw himself as a lovable rogue, and his weapons were OTT, but this time his schemes did regularly kill people and often in absolutely horrific ways, like burning them from the inside, and melting their faces with acid or killing them with bang flag guns. However this Joker rather amusingly was still a complete wimp physically. Even more so than his 60s counterpart. He couldn't fight for shit, but he was still dangerous due to his lunacy and unpredictable nature. This Joker also established his relationship with Lex Luthor, as having a grudging respect for each other, though they first met in a 60s story, it was just a standard villain team up. The 70s shows them having a degree of friendship with Lex in some ways being the dominant of the two at times due to his genius, but the Joker often tormenting him at certain points through his madness LOL. In terms of his relationship with Batman this Joker also genuinely hated the caped crusader too. Really this Joker exploited the black comedy of the character. He was able to do the most horrible things and make you laugh while doing them (which is why this version is my favourite. To be fair later eras would try to retain this element but I don't think any did it quite as well as this.)
Overall this era is perfectly represented in the Tim Burton Batman. Everything about Jack Nicholson's performance as the Joker comes from the 70s version. His black comedy, his lethal gags, his more hateful feud with Batman, the fact that he is such a wimp in a straight fight, and finally even his romantic side LOL. The Jokers infatuation with Vicki Vale comes from a story arc in the 70s where he falls in love with Black Canary and like Jack's Joker thinks she loves him too and tries to kill Green Arrow who he thinks is a poser trying to steal his girl LOL. It's funny on screen because of how deluded the Joker is, but actually terrifying when you realise a lot of stalkers do actually think like that no matter how hard the lady tries to convince them.
In the 80s there would be two reinventions of the Joker meanwhile. First in The Dark Knight Returns he was portrayed as a nihilistic anarchist, who had a demented obsession with Batman that went beyond just a feud. He saw Batman as a weird combination of a friend and enemy. He went from wanting to make him suffer to believing that Batman was the straight man in his act. He still retained the characters ego from the 60s version, but now he never cared about money and instead saw his crimes as part of his twisted philosophy. On top of that he was dangerous physically again, but he still wasn't strong or a good fighter. He was dangerous because he was so insane he didn't react to pain. He could literally get a knife in the eye and laugh it off.
Overall this portrayal would become dominant in popular culture thanks to Heath Ledgers performance in The Dark Knight, which largely drew from this era.
The second reinvention was in The Killing Joke where they finally explored who he was before he became the Joker, and portrayed him as a sympathetic, tragic figure who was broken by the world around him. Obviously this is the version that would be featured in the 2019 film Joker and its upcoming sequel.
Finally another reinvention would come from in the 21st century through a variety of sources, that the Joker was never just a man. It is a title that is passed down to several different psychopaths, in fact it may even be a cult of lunatics. Certain versions may even imply once again that there is a supernatural aspect to the Joker title, that it's a curse on Gotham, or a demonic spirit passing from person to person. Kind of fitting that it comes full circle to the original Joker in this respect.
This version was represented in Gotham via the Valeska brothers both played by Cameron Monaghan.
Mark Hamill meanwhile whilst he may be a political idiot, was the best as his performances as the Joker in just the DCAU alone covered all of these elements. In episodes like Make Em Laugh he is the goofy Romero Joker, in others like The Laughing Fish he is the 70s era Joker who is funny but horrible, in others like Harlequinade he is the 80s anarchist Joker wanting to blow up Gotham for kids, whilst Batman Beyond Return of the Joker combines the idea of the Joker being more than just a man through his return and is also eerily calm, and stronger like the original.
What were we talking about again? Oh yeah the Master who rather than having people who liked his history and tried to combine elements of his past together whilst doing something new like these versions did, had writers whose motto was "the Master sucks let's do our own thing, I know I'm gay and so let's make the Masters relationship with the Doctor gay, or I'm Scottish how about I make him Scottish and just cast my friend, and I like doing stories about dominatrix's who lust after and are tamed by the cerebral hero, so how about I do that instead."
Meanwhile so called Classic Who fans, including even those who complain about wokery because there is a trans character instantly say "Best Master ever 5/5" and you feel like Frank Grimes!
I suppose we should be grateful for villains like the Joker who've had great histories.
