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Post by burrunjor on Jan 12, 2024 11:10:43 GMT
It's good music but it is a bit soppy and toothless at times, as well as being fairly gentrified due to its reputation as "art" music. Obviously the guys themselves were all scallywags but their canon has fallen largely into the hands of snooty and sycophantic music students who overstudy a collection of what are ostensibly half-decent ditties written by some blokes who couldn't really play their instruments. Again, it's good music but it's hardly Beethoven. This is why I find the concept of studying modern music rather preposterous, with the exception of jazz; it's all a declension of the classical tradition and you'd be better off looking to Bach for advice on secondary dominants, which he used in literally every piece he wrote, than the Beatles who used them once or twice (to great acclaim by hipster music students, I might add). Really where the Beatles succeeded is in the area of music that warrants little to no study at all, that which concerns the synthesis of apparently daft and defunct ideas that manage to somehow come together and defy the screwed-up faces of music theorists all over the globe; a.k.a. the bits that don't make musical sense, per se. There was a remarkable talent there for pure conception that was unfettered by theoretical bonds, something that a snooty hipster could not acquire in a lifetime of study. I disagree. I think a lot of their music does hold up beyond being half decent ditties. A lot of the psychadelic stuff is very imaginative above all else. Really only the Beatles could have had a classic fantasy movie like Yellow Submarine built out of their songs. Others like In My Life and Eleanor Rigby's lyrics in particular are very poignant, memorable and strike quite a chord as you get older. Even more incredible given they were written by guys in their 20s. (One of whom tragically never lived to being an old guy.) Meanwhile John Lennon is my favourite Beatle. To be honest whilst I am a huge Beatles fan, I'd say that John did his best stuff on his own. Working Class Hero is the best political song ever written. It honestly completely changed my life when I heard it as a teenager, and it's depressingly more relevant today than ever before. I'm honestly baffled that a lot of the more left leaning people here hate the Beatles to such an extent they can't see the value in its lyrics? I admit though Imagine is a lot of naive hippy crap. I mean it's a decent tune, but yeah lyrically it's worthless. To be fair Lennon himself even said that Imagine was the upper middle class version of Working Class Hero. Meanwhile other songs of his like Mother, Beautiful Boy, How, Watching the Wheels, Starting Over etc are all quite deep, thoughtful, relatable songs in terms of their lyrics and show that Lennon, whilst he could be naive and incredibly self absorbed, was also I think quite a deep thinker. Not saying he was a great intellect or anything, but he definitely was someone who was capable of quite a deep analysis of life and just the world around him from how much we love our kids, to the pain of childhood to how the system f*cks us LOL. He was kind of like Robert Burns in that respect. People may knock Lennon for not being working class, but I think that's even more impressive that he was able to write Working Class Hero, though simple analysis than experience. That said I DO agree that a lot of snooty music critics read too much into his songs. To be fair though the Beatles themselves agreed with that, and in fact I am The Walrus was intended to subvert that by being deliberately nonsensical in terms of its lyrics LOL. Still even that is quite a considerable skill to be able to still make what are silly lyrics like "man you should have seen them kicking Edgar Allen Poe" flow together seamlessly and sing it with such conviction it works too. Same goes For The Benefit of Mr Kite, which was literally just words from a post made into a song! You have to admire the creativity of that. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2024 11:47:13 GMT
That's him! I remember we used to laugh at similar things, particular how crap Danny Pink was compared to the old UNIT - particularly when he wandered into the road and got run down by a car whilst daydreaming about how much he 'wuvved' Clara. 🤣 To be fair I'm sure lots of guys have almost walked into fatal accidents day dreaming about Jenna Coleman. Am I right Maxil. Absolutely although I think that applies to a lot of women for me  |
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Post by burrunjor on Jan 12, 2024 12:45:35 GMT
To be fair I'm sure lots of guys have almost walked into fatal accidents day dreaming about Jenna Coleman. Am I right Maxil. Absolutely although I think that applies to a lot of women for me Women in general I'd say LOL. Mind you I'm one to talk. |
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Post by mott1 on Jan 12, 2024 19:14:46 GMT
It's good music but it is a bit soppy and toothless at times, as well as being fairly gentrified due to its reputation as "art" music. Obviously the guys themselves were all scallywags but their canon has fallen largely into the hands of snooty and sycophantic music students who overstudy a collection of what are ostensibly half-decent ditties written by some blokes who couldn't really play their instruments. Again, it's good music but it's hardly Beethoven. This is why I find the concept of studying modern music rather preposterous, with the exception of jazz; it's all a declension of the classical tradition and you'd be better off looking to Bach for advice on secondary dominants, which he used in literally every piece he wrote, than the Beatles who used them once or twice (to great acclaim by hipster music students, I might add). Really where the Beatles succeeded is in the area of music that warrants little to no study at all, that which concerns the synthesis of apparently daft and defunct ideas that manage to somehow come together and defy the screwed-up faces of music theorists all over the globe; a.k.a. the bits that don't make musical sense, per se. There was a remarkable talent there for pure conception that was unfettered by theoretical bonds, something that a snooty hipster could not acquire in a lifetime of study. Really only the Beatles could have had a classic fantasy movie like Yellow Submarine built out of their songs. Labyrinth? The Wall? Those Gnomes films with the Elton John songs in...? |
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Post by burrunjor on Jan 12, 2024 19:26:38 GMT
Really only the Beatles could have had a classic fantasy movie like Yellow Submarine built out of their songs. Labyrinth? The Wall? Those Gnomes films with the Elton John songs in...? Different thing entirely. Bowie wrote fantasy songs for Labyrinth, and similarly Queen wrote songs for Highlander. Again doesn't mean those songs aren't great, but the Beatles existing songs were so off the wall and conjured up such mad images and surreal stories, that the plot for Yellow Submarine is almost cobbled together from different songs from SGT Pepper, to the titular song to Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds. (Contrary to popular belief that song was NOT inspired by LSD. It was written for Julian Lennon, and named after a drawing he did of a friend called Lucy. There'd even be a song from Julian about Lucy and the real girl came forward years later. Again shows how Lennon was so creative he could make a song out of anything. ) |
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Post by mott1 on Jan 12, 2024 21:07:38 GMT
How is it different? The same could be said for Billy Elliot with Marc Bolan's music, or certainly The Wall! I don't really see the difference, just personal preference.
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