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Post by burrunjor on Dec 11, 2023 21:24:07 GMT
LOL calmed down a bit now. Sorry about the EXPLOSIVE rant earlier. I don't want to be anti new who fans like Zarius or be a little Who fascist "you can't like this or that." I just didn't get it as it is no longer the same character anymore. Again this isn't even interpretations, it LITERALLY isn't the same character any more. He's split in two. I thought that would be the point that it would drive people away. I do still maintain that there is nothing left of the show now, but it's not up to me to make people feel like they're not true fans. I got the rant out of my system that's me LOL. It's healthy to vent, no issues. I still think Nu Who can have plenty of cringe in it, there are times it embarrasses me too. I doubt I can ever go to my circle of friends and tell them I enjoyed Toymaker's 'extra spice' and the Doctor mixing in with the boys and girls...I can't live vicariously through that, I can't stand clubs, and i'm too old to mix in like that, I'd get the most awful stares rofl. Why Ncuti's character finds the devouring black babies "amazing" is a red flag also. He knows what skin he's in right? A lot of Davies work these past few specials comes across to me like he doesn't have much tolerance for the P.C culture as the work indicates, I've...noticed things that seem to be taking sharp jabs at all the inclusivity and it's very mean-spirited Thanks for being understanding of my rants LOL. I do still stand by criticism of it and obviously I'm baffled at RTD actually killing off basically the Doctor, or at least parking him indefinitely. Still like I said I don't want to foster even on this small forum an all new who fans are idiots, you must like it the way I do attitude. Not just because it would be dickish but hypocritical since I have so many friends who are new who fans LOL. From Golden Age Geek to Claudia. Speaking of which I actually had a lovely livestream with Claudia today. I wasn't on it, it was just her, but I got to speak to her through the chat. It was quite heavy going at first. What's happening in Palestine is really getting to her because she's.... sane LOL. Still even beyond just decency, someone she knew online and really, really looked up too was tragically killed in the conflict. It was really hard, but at least by the end she seemed a bit better and we all had a great laugh about DW. Her favourite classic Doctor is Patrick Troughton btw. Honestly what is it with Troughton? Every single fan girl almost I've met or talked to online, or helped to introduce to the show LOVES Troughton the most out of the classic era Doctors haha. Whether they grew up with the original, or are fan girls who came to it through the revival, it's always Troughton out of the first 7 they gravitate too. He must have ten times the fangirls of any classic Doctor LMAO. Even Tennant doesn't dominate the fangirl market as much for new who fans (as Matt Smith I'd say has just about as many. Even Eccelston and Peter had more than you'd think.) However Troughton 100 percent dominates the classic who market as far as fan girls are concerned haha. Pertwee seems to be more of a guy Doctor meanwhile. You'll be pleased to hear Rushy though she said Hartnell was her second favourite and preferred him to Pertwee and Tom. Always nice to see a bit of Hartnell love, even more so after that edited Dalek abomination. New Who fans and classic who fans should get along, but I still say the way to do that is to have an alternate sequel. Then classic who is safe, and we can all choose which if any of the sequels we want. Having said that though Rushy I'm with you now that we shouldn't bother trying to link all the alternate sequels together via a multiverse. I still think that would have been a really cool idea back in say 2017, or even 2020. However the Fitzroy Crowd are so out of control that honestly Classic Who wouldn't be safe being in the same multiverse as theirs. They'd probably do a stupid story where the classic who universe got destroyed like the 2010s version of the Flash did to the 90s Flash, or they'd be petty and do that to the alternate sequel series. Plus they've kind of f*cked up the DW multiverse by having it that all the classic era Doctors split off into their own universes too. Really it's just a tangled mess that I don't think can be fixed even that way. |
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Post by burrunjor on Dec 11, 2023 21:33:49 GMT
The guy is a cynical careerist hack who rode to the top of the industry on the coattails of an old favorite the public were already clamouring for a revival of long before he came along. His motivation then was to use it as a springboard for his and Chinballs' trashy, pretentious, adolescent emo drama featuring sex monsters who shag people to death, hypnotic date rape drugs, and dominatrixes marching around in Cyberman-themed bondage gear. I never even considered that before, but it does make sense. Torchwood is basically Queer As Folk with aliens He's also spot on the money in that in the early 2000s RTD tried to get a show called Excalibur made that was basically Torchwood, but no one would buy it, so he then decided to spin it off from Doctor Who as Torchwood. It's why it annoys me when people including even Clever Dick Films who I like a lot try and paint it as RTD was risking his career by taking on DW, but he was such a devoted fan he took that risk. Bollocks it was the best thing that ever happened to him. Had he not touched DW, he would still be writing edgy, niche shows on channel 4, but DW gave him international fame. |
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Post by iank on Dec 11, 2023 21:39:30 GMT
That's one of the reasons I never liked Torchwood (aside from it being shit)- it smelled of a spinoff in name only even before I knew the story. Why would you do a spinoff of something you've namedropped in a couple of eps and shown as bad guys in another? Why would you do a show like this when Who already has a human organisation devoted to the cause called UNIT?
Because it was, as ever, all about RTD and his ego.
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Post by burrunjor on Dec 11, 2023 21:59:56 GMT
UGH looking at all the praise this is getting from DW fans for being exactly the type of thing DW does is depressing. What is wrong with DW fans and their loyalty to the name of DW and nothing else? I am honestly convinced you could have the Doctor fight a lump of shit. Not even sentient shit. Literally a lump of steaming shit and these people would still give it a 10/10. I've said it before, and I will say it again: There is a section of Who fans that have their fandom in place of a personality and a life. Who is their entire identity, so of course they have to mindlessly swallow anything under the name, even if it no longer resembles the thing they supposedly "love". They don't love it. It's debatable if they ever did. They just chose their fandom over getting a life. I don't understand it, but there you have it. I get that it's difficult to walk away from something you've watched for a long time, and/or that you've invested in. It was the same for me with The Bill in 2002, Neighbours in 93 and then again in 06 (after having foolishly started watching again in 04). Even New Poo took me several times to cut the cord. But if the product no longer matches the name and you just keep mindlessly lapping it up, you're not a fan. You're a consumer. I know what you mean to some extent. I wouldn't say these people don't have lives or personalities. Sorry but I don't ever like going into that, as who knows what these people's lives are like. I think it's more that their mentality is similar in some cases to sports fans who just support teams blindly. In another life they'd be die hard rangers fans who HATED Celtic supporters with a vengeance. It is a human trait sadly and one we never acknowledge in ourselves, hence why sports fans sneer as sci fi fans for being saddos obsessed with something stupid, whilst sci fi fans sneer at sports fans for being idiots who get worked up over stupid games. There was one guy on Gallifrey Base, Peter D Nolan who fit that description of basically being a sports fan type for DW. I'm not Doxxing him as he has a picture of himself in his profile pic, and writes for numerous websites with his real name, and it's not like I have a legion of fans who are going to attack him LOL. Still yeah Peter according to his bio is happily married and seems to be rather content in himself, so it's not like his entire life revolves around DW or I think he is a miserable loser or anything, but he had this unbelievable fanatical loyalty to the show where he could get quite unpleasant if you criticised ANY aspect of it. He'd defend absolutely anything about it, even if it was contradictory to his previous statements. For instance he used to come down hard on me for my multiverse idea, but now that RTD has adopted it (in a much more clumsy and awful way, by splitting off every Doctor into an alternate universe, rather than just different productions like Classic and New Who.) He probably thinks it's the best idea there ever was. I mean I don't want to come down too hard on the guy, as my unexpected friendship with Omie LOL, shows you how we can all get boxed into our little tribes, be too quick to say "so and so is just an SJW, a right wing shit lord etc." Who knows maybe one day I'll meet Nolan on another forum and we'll hit it off too. Still I do think from what I've seen of him and again others, that yeah they do basically fall into what people see as the sports fan mentality of DW is now their team and they will defend it with their lives LOL no matter what, even if it doesn't resemble DW anymore, as long as they think it is doing well, by virtue of still being on the tv, that's enough. |
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Post by Spark Doll King on Dec 12, 2023 0:18:49 GMT
used to call it Disney Who? Well I think he has to eat his words now. That was completely wrong and snobbish of him. Yeah there are no words, except I feel so good about my own DW story right now. Not saying it was a classic obvs, but compared to that, The Fire of the Daleks is a f*cking masterpiece! Oh RTD also did some more fat shaming with jokes about the Goblin man's chin wobbling with the villain once again being a big fat monster that eats people. ..... So RTD big brain idea is to turn a sci fi show into a fantasy one, after turning the Doctor into an hyper gay stereotype.. Is it me or is RTD creating a rather offensive piece of television in his bid to subvert negative stereotypes? |
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Post by rushy on Dec 12, 2023 0:24:38 GMT
That's one of the reasons I never liked Torchwood (aside from it being shit)- it smelled of a spinoff in name only even before I knew the story. Why would you do a spinoff of something you've namedropped in a couple of eps and shown as bad guys in another? Why would you do a show like this when Who already has a human organisation devoted to the cause called UNIT? Because it was, as ever, all about RTD and his ego. The original concept for Torchwood was that it was a more shady and mysterious organisation, with superiors and other factions that aren't as moral as Jack (who is himself an antihero from time to time). UNIT is generally quite respectable and straightforward. And there may have been a concern that subverting that would piss people off, considering that it is almost synonymous with the fan favourite Brigadier. |
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Post by rushy on Dec 12, 2023 0:28:56 GMT
I'm baffled at RTD actually killing off basically the Doctor, or at least parking him indefinitely. The episode implies that the 14th Doctor's time on Earth is the reason behind the 15th Doctor's flamboyant attitude, so I don't think they're meant to be two different people. It's a weird out of sync thing, where 14 eventually dies and his experiences get transferred to 15. |
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Post by Genkimonk on Dec 12, 2023 0:34:11 GMT
Russel really is a pervert. everything has to be about sex. And you just know he shoehorns his fantasies into his work. That's why the (at the time) underage sex scene in QAF always concerned me. And given he practically allowed Barrowman to do crap on sets just shows his utter lack of judgement and ethics. Is it any wonder Ecclestone ran?
The fact that he could take a show where literally ANYTHING is possible, turn around and say "This show needs more sex" just shows how limited of a writer he truly is.
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Post by ClockworkOcean on Dec 12, 2023 1:19:19 GMT
The original concept for Torchwood was that it was a more shady and mysterious organisation, with superiors and other factions that aren't as moral as Jack (who is himself an antihero from time to time). UNIT is generally quite respectable and straightforward. And there may have been a concern that subverting that would piss people off, considering that it is almost synonymous with the fan favourite Brigadier. He and Chinballs did that anyway though. The way UNIT is portrayed as having treated Toshiko during the flashback scene in the Series 2 finale is vastly more reprehensible than anything the Torchwood organisation was ever shown doing. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2023 1:34:54 GMT
The original concept for Torchwood was that it was a more shady and mysterious organisation, with superiors and other factions that aren't as moral as Jack (who is himself an antihero from time to time). UNIT is generally quite respectable and straightforward. And there may have been a concern that subverting that would piss people off, considering that it is almost synonymous with the fan favourite Brigadier. He and Chinballs did that anyway though. The way UNIT is portrayed as having treated Toshiko during the flashback scene in the Series 2 finale is vastly more reprehensible than anything the Torchwood organisation was ever shown doing. Was that UNIT? I always just assumed it was some shadow organisation or deep-state government lol |
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Post by burrunjor on Dec 12, 2023 9:46:01 GMT
Russel really is a pervert. everything has to be about sex. And you just know he shoehorns his fantasies into his work. That's why the (at the time) underage sex scene in QAF always concerned me. And given he practically allowed Barrowman to do crap on sets just shows his utter lack of judgement and ethics. Is it any wonder Ecclestone ran? The fact that he could take a show where literally ANYTHING is possible, turn around and say "This show needs more sex" just shows how limited of a writer he truly is. Again I can't stress this enough. This is NOT a personal slur as I don't know the man, and lots of writers enjoy writing about sexual deviancy the same way they enjoy writing about other weird things that they'd never do in real life. George R Martin is one such example. Guy's obsessed with incest. Still RTD certainly does seem to enjoy writing about deviancy and again he should stick to writing edgy, sex obsessed adult drama's rather than a family show if that's the kind of writer he is. Examples include, the relationship between the 15 year old and the guy my age in Queer as Folk (where the dad upset at his 15 year old shagging an older man is presented as the bad guy.) The creepy rape fantasy in Torchwood, where Owen date rapes several men and women. Granted this episode was written by Chibnall, but RTD still oversaw it and co wrote the first episode. All the moisturise me stuff with Lady Cassandra and her going on about Billie Pipers big tits. The older woman shoving her hand up the Doctors arsehole in The End of Time. That's a twofer. Older woman creeping on a young man, and more creepy consenst stuff. Bestiality in Gridlock. Granted RTD isn't the first to have animal aliens and humans get off with each other, but having their offspring be actual kittens is a bit.... weird? It seems to really highlight the animal part more than say Vastra or Gkar which skip over that other than as a comical novelty. Also James Marsters character is shown to eye up a poodle, then we have it that the Doctor has turned into animals too. Now he seems to be throwing in some vore into the upcoming Goblin episode.  Guy needs to keep this stuff in his head or as jokes to his mates. |
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Post by burrunjor on Dec 12, 2023 10:43:04 GMT
I will never understand the rabid fans who took the piss out of Doom's Day but are absolutely adoring this. It's just the typical two-faced BS from people who have no real moral standing or even just interesting opinions. The sort of "Love and Monsters bad because of green fat suit" bozos who parrot the talking points of their favourite YouTube chancer because they have been raised without the capacity for independent thought. That being said, the amount of people I know who will suck up to anyone for a slice of pie is pretty disconcerting. There's this music "journalist" I know who will give inordinate (and sloppily written) praise to the shallowest, most uninteresting projects just so he can get more interviews on his channel. A generation of suck-ups whose interesting, and perhaps useful, opinions are inhibited by their desire to remain in the loop, in the cycle of comfortable mediocrity. We're living in the worst timeline. Missed this before, but spot on. That is I think what really annoys me about DW fandom. It's the way they are so hard on other things. If they were a laid back fandom who did just accept everything then fine. However they are among the harshest to the things they think are embarrassing to the brand. Hence why we still get people saying the McCoy era brought shame to DW, whilst praising this as being something only DW can do. Doomsday meanwhile I agree it was insane the level of backlash that got. FFS it was a minor piece of spin off material. All this the 60th is ruined because of this, what! The 60th was ruined by that, but not by the actual 60th specials just being RTD wanking himself off, with barely a mention of any previous eras bar one crappy companion who was in two awful seasons (sorry Maxil.) Who was only brought back because she is a panto dame and RTD loves panto. Yet those get universally praised? I've often said DW fandom can be like Bernard from Black Books. For those who haven't seen the show, he goes insane at the smallest things like Manny, his sidekick using the word party as a verb in the shop, but is extremely laid back and normal about things like Manny locking him out of his house for the entire night, and leaving him to fend for himself in the freezing, crime ridden streets all night. "What's that, you've turned the Master into River Song, the Brig into a Cyber Zombie and the Doctor into the President of Earth. Ahhhh fine, who cares it's only a tv show. What's this, a minor piece of spin off material about a character who has never been in the show and therefore won't impact it at all, and is a bit silly and frothy? STAB, STAB, STAB, STAB, KILL, KILL, KILL DIEEEEE!" |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2023 11:12:52 GMT
I will never understand the rabid fans who took the piss out of Doom's Day but are absolutely adoring this. It's just the typical two-faced BS from people who have no real moral standing or even just interesting opinions. The sort of "Love and Monsters bad because of green fat suit" bozos who parrot the talking points of their favourite YouTube chancer because they have been raised without the capacity for independent thought. That being said, the amount of people I know who will suck up to anyone for a slice of pie is pretty disconcerting. There's this music "journalist" I know who will give inordinate (and sloppily written) praise to the shallowest, most uninteresting projects just so he can get more interviews on his channel. A generation of suck-ups whose interesting, and perhaps useful, opinions are inhibited by their desire to remain in the loop, in the cycle of comfortable mediocrity. We're living in the worst timeline. Doomsday meanwhile I agree it was insane the level of backlash that got. FFS it was a minor piece of spin off material. All this the 60th is ruined because of this, what! The 60th was ruined by that, but not by the actual 60th specials just being RTD wanking himself off, with barely a mention of any previous eras bar one crappy companion who was in two awful seasons (sorry Maxil.) Who was only brought back because she is a panto dame and RTD loves panto. Literally every other anniversary apart from the 40th was a multi-Doctor story. Even when it was f*cking off-air they managed it for the 30th. I guess the collective 0.3 seconds of Hartnell we saw will suffice. The lack of something like the Five-ish Doctors also only served to emphasise it. It really did not feel special in the slightest. Heck, why not get Doctors 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 13, 14 and 15 (and maybe 4 and 12 at a stretch) to do The Nine Doctors? You totally could. |
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Post by iank on Dec 12, 2023 21:12:36 GMT
Why? Because RTD is not interested in Doctor Who. He's only interested in himself. He couldn't even be arsed to put other New Who Doctors in the 60th, let alone any of the classics. Only his Doctor and his companion.
The man's a rampant egotist. Which can be okay, if you have a level of talent to get away with it. He doesn't.
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Post by rushy on Dec 12, 2023 22:55:52 GMT
He couldn't even be arsed to put other New Who Doctors in the 60th In fairness, it's highly improbable that any other New Who Doctor would participate. Eccleston hates him. Matt's busy with House of the Dragon stuff. Capaldi seems to boycott multi-Doctor stories entirely. And Whittaker only just left. |
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