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Post by Bernard Marx on Nov 26, 2023 12:12:30 GMT
A brief addendum. My brother also watched it and was nonplused by it. He said to me at the end: “Why couldn’t they have brought McGann back instead of Tennant? Tennant’s dominated it for years and McGann was wasted in one film”. How do you think the failure of this will affect RTD's legacy in the long run. This truly does change everything now. His followers can no longer rely on the "he just understands DW" or "DW is all about change" "New Who was more popular than classic who" mantras. All of those things have been truly debunked by now. I genuinely think the narrative will change to "yeah new who was good for its time, but doesn't hold up as much now." I think his legacy will gradually erode. As many of us here have said before, Davies was briefly very good at encapsulating a certain cultural zeitgeist, and this initially shielded him from criticism. That zeitgeist has since passed, and he has little else to fall back on. More optimistic people I know are saying that the viewing figure doesn’t include iPlayer or Disney+ streams and that the ratings ought to increase for later episodes. I see little evidence for the latter point, and I can’t see it having a huge audience overseas anymore. Jodie got 8.2 million overnight figures for her first episode and this was more rigorously marketed. It’s no longer a cultural juggernaut. It’s a tired footnote prone to decay, redolent of Ozymandias. |
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Post by burrunjor on Nov 26, 2023 12:27:10 GMT
How do you think the failure of this will affect RTD's legacy in the long run. This truly does change everything now. His followers can no longer rely on the "he just understands DW" or "DW is all about change" "New Who was more popular than classic who" mantras. All of those things have been truly debunked by now. I genuinely think the narrative will change to "yeah new who was good for its time, but doesn't hold up as much now." I think his legacy will gradually erode. As many of us here have said before, Davies was briefly very good at encapsulating a certain cultural zeitgeist, and this initially shielded him from criticism. That zeitgeist has since passed, and he has little else to fall back on. More optimistic people I know are saying that the viewing figure doesn’t include iPlayer or Disney+ streams and that the ratings ought to increase for later episodes. I see little evidence for the latter point, and I can’t see it having a huge audience overseas anymore. Jodie got 8.2 million overnight figures for her first episode and this was more rigorously marketed. It’s no longer a cultural juggernaut. It’s a tired footnote prone to decay, redolent of Ozymandias. One myth that I do hope is undone by all this is the idea that Donna is the greatest companion of them all. That has always annoyed me. She was annoying, LOOOUUUUUUUUUUDDDDDD, her comedy extremely forced and old fashioned, honestly her and her family's hijinks reminded me of Oh Crikey from the Young Ones, and her story arc was absolute bollocks. It was a tired, lazy, rehash of Rose's, ordinary cockney girl, with a more sympathetic father figure and an unsympathetic mother that hates the Doctor, who has a boring, dull life and travels with the Doctor to escape it, but there is something weird following her around (bad wolf, what's on your back), because she ends up being the most important person in all of creation as she gets super powers in the finale to destroy the Daleks, whilst the Doctor is useless. Even gets the same twinkly gold eyes. I might add even Rose's story was an inferior retread of Ace's and they'd repeat this story AGAIN with Clara and to a lesser extent Amy. I'm not saying writers can't reuse ideas, but in the case of Donna what does she add to the impossible girl cliche? She doesn't want to shag him, yeah really original. Not at all like what we had for 26 years. Again watch Ace and you'll see that done properly (along with intelligent political commentary unlike the cliched "it's happening again" from Turn Left.) Also her arc is a straight up insult to the Doctor. She gets his powers and uses them in a better way than he ever could. FFS what kind of show does that to their main character? What's worse is they brought that back here, that she could fix the ship in a way he couldn't because she was smarter, only this time they added in some full blown misandry on top of it. Her popularity is baffling. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2023 12:42:03 GMT
Maybe Donna was right. Maybe I should just let go. To be honest, Doctor Who is an unhealthy obsession at this point and it causes far more misery thanks to the modern series than pleasure. I rushed a family Christmas shopping trip on Thursday so I could make it back for the Daleks in Colour, something I genuinely regret now. I also ended up watching the special last night due to fear of missing out when I would have had a much better night if I'd just carried on watching Harry Potter. I have other intrests, many of which have not been completely tainted. I love the original series and always will, but I need to give it a break. It's never going to be Terror of the Zygons, Remembrance of the Daleks or Inferno again and I need to just accept that and move on. Clive Swift nailed it on the head in DWM: there are bigger things than this.
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Post by Bernard Marx on Nov 26, 2023 12:54:53 GMT
Maybe Donna was right. Maybe I should just let go. To be honest, Doctor Who is an unhealthy obsession at this point and it causes far more misery thanks to the modern series than pleasure. I rushed a family Christmas shopping trip on Thursday so I could make it back for the Daleks in Colour, something I genuinely regret now. I also ended up watching the special last night due to fear of missing out when I would have had a much better night if I'd just carried on watching Harry Potter. I have other intrests, many of which have not been completely tainted. I love the original series and always will, but I need to give it a break. It's never going to be Terror of the Zygons, Remembrance of the Daleks or Inferno again and I need to just accept that and move on. Clive Swift nailed it on the head in DWM: there are bigger things than this. Me too. In my case, it’s basically Stockholm Syndrome at this stage. Why watch something which has been consistently shit for years purely because of the name? As I’ve said before, the original series stands on its own and has nothing to do with subsequent retcons, so why indulge them? Likewise, I’ve got the eras I enjoy on physical media and don’t need an iPlayer assortment. Even when it comes to NuWho’s few shining spots, why would I watch a botched version of An Adventure in Space and Time when I own it on DVD? A copy which comes with The Fiveish Doctors, no less, whose sequel would have taken the absolute piss out of the series if it hasn’t been shelved for being too scathing. As Clockwork has said before, if we can't abide it, we’re better off selecting our personal cut-off points and moving on. There are better things to be doing. |
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Post by burrunjor on Nov 26, 2023 13:03:33 GMT
Maybe Donna was right. Maybe I should just let go. To be honest, Doctor Who is an unhealthy obsession at this point and it causes far more misery thanks to the modern series than pleasure. I rushed a family Christmas shopping trip on Thursday so I could make it back for the Daleks in Colour, something I genuinely regret now. I also ended up watching the special last night due to fear of missing out when I would have had a much better night if I'd just carried on watching Harry Potter. I have other intrests, many of which have not been completely tainted. I love the original series and always will, but I need to give it a break. It's never going to be Terror of the Zygons, Remembrance of the Daleks or Inferno again and I need to just accept that and move on. Clive Swift nailed it on the head in DWM: there are bigger things than this. It's a shame. It always happens. In the year, sometimes two year gap between episodes, we somewhere down the line might get reminded of why we love Classic Who through rewatches and such, only for new who to come along and drain all that love and enthusiasm for the show away. I totally get your point Maxil and I am going to try and stick to my vow. (Which will be made easier with NPH being in it.) However that said it is amusing watching the reactions to it. Again I don't normally delight in other people's misfortunes, but in the case of the new who boys, it's not even that oh they are so mean they deserve it. It's more they have done EVERYTHING I told them not to do, every step of the way, I was called a madman for telling them not to do this and that, thrown off of forums, abused, calling boring etc, and every single thing I warned them about has come to pass. I said don't pander to millennial activists as they will take over your fandom, and I was right. I said don't change the sex of the Doctor as it jars and will unravel the character and be a failure and I was right. I said don't focus on politics instead of the story, I was right. I said don't monkey about with the past of the character and his enemies, as it will alienate both fans and mainstream audiences and I was right. I said don't worship RTD as this messiah whose genius saved DW, and look at the outside factors as to why it might have been a success beyond him (Good publicity, nostalgic love for the original, young people being introduced to things like Daleks, Cybermen, regeneration for the first time etc.) Funnily enough I got banned from Gallifrey Reddit yesterday for my opinions. They never learn. |
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mistressrani
Certified Mob Rallying Heretic Crank
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Post by mistressrani on Nov 26, 2023 14:03:14 GMT
Well, that was well worth the wait - a great romp. Combined all the best elements of the Tennant, Smith and Capaldi eras. Tennant and Tate were on great form, an all time great Doctor-companion pairing. The TARDIS was glorious, the Meep was well realised and a great theme arrangement. Loved a transgender woman being brought in to it - seeing the gammon meltdown on twitter was hilarious. A solid start: 8/10.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2023 14:36:41 GMT
I watched it and I don’t really know what to make of it. It was all basically running about with flashy special effects and Murray Gold’s bombastic farty brass band music which I detest. I much prefer the synth scores which are more atmospheric. The best NuWho music by far was series 1 and 2, because they didn't have a real orchestra back then and had to place more emphasis on the synths and get more experimental rather than try and mimic an orchestra with VSTs. Orchestral music is great if you're John Williams, but Murray Gold is not at that level. I hear more and more of those dreaded orchestral hits and "big percussion" which I've heard in so many other incompetent soundtracks (all the Star Wars shows, Marvel movies, Jodie Who, etc.) |
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Post by UncleDeadly on Nov 26, 2023 15:28:38 GMT
Well, that was well worth the wait - a great romp. Combined all the best elements of the Tennant, Smith and Capaldi eras. Tennant and Tate were on great form, an all time great Doctor-companion pairing. The TARDIS was glorious, the Meep was well realised and a great theme arrangement. Loved a transgender woman being brought in to it - seeing the gammon meltdown on twitter was hilarious. A solid start: 8/10. Excellent, Rani. I see you've read the mood of the room as well as Davies has...  |
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Post by arthurstengos on Nov 26, 2023 16:04:54 GMT
I watched it and I don’t really know what to make of it. It was all basically running about with flashy special effects and Murray Gold’s bombastic farty brass band music which I detest. I much prefer the synth scores which are more atmospheric. The best NuWho music by far was series 1 and 2, because they didn't have a real orchestra back then and had to place more emphasis on the synths and get more experimental rather than try and mimic an orchestra with VSTs. Orchestral music is great if you're John Williams, but Murray Gold is not at that level. I hear more and more of those dreaded orchestral hits and "big percussion" which I've heard in so many other incompetent soundtracks (all the Star Wars shows, Marvel movies, Jodie Who, etc.) Exactly. Those brass band scores seem to be in every show nowadays and it’s getting boring. In my opinion (with me being a big synth music fan) I think the best Doctor Who scores were from the JNT era of the 1980s as they were original and atmospheric. However, I guess the reason for the change in direction with NuWho was to appeal to a bigger audience. Another thing is I have not been at all impressed by the orchestral arrangements of the theme music as they are not my cup of tea. When I think of the Doctor Who theme I will always think of Delia Derbyshire’s arrangement and Peter Howell’s early 80s arrangement though I do have a soft spot for Dominic Glynn and Keff McCullock’s arrangements. |
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Post by arthurstengos on Nov 26, 2023 16:15:09 GMT
I watched it and I don’t really know what to make of it. It was all basically running about with flashy special effects and Murray Gold’s bombastic farty brass band music which I detest. I much prefer the synth scores which are more atmospheric. I really don’t care about Doctor Who anymore to the point that’s I’ve lost interest. The usual Woke nonsense in the scripts are becoming tiring and embarrassing to the point I just laugh at them. The good points are that David Tennant’s portrayal of The Doctor wasn’t as annoying as I thought he was going to be and the new Tardis interior is very good. To be honest watching that last night helped to kill my love for DW. It's funny because this year I rekindled my love for it and had a rewatch from late Troughton to mid Tom and f*cking loved it. Even got back into doing my alternate who sequel series. However watching new who again, honestly made me a bit embarrassed to say I like it, and depressed at how far it's fallen and thinking, you know it's really not worth it. Still hearing how its viewers were crap has cheered me up a bit. Whilst I don't take pleasure in others downfall, it does perhaps mean that maybe the Fitzroy Crowd's hold over the franchise is beginning to collapse. How can they go on? This was their last throw of the dice. Surely? Don’t get me wrong there are times I like to relax with a bottle of wine and chill out to old classic Doctor Who DVDs when I’m in the mood but as far as this new series is concerned I don’t care about it. As long as this new shit gets the rating and the fans it will continue but I feel a lot of damage was caused to NuWho due to the Jodie Whittaker era and it will take a lot for it to get back to it’s popularity again. |
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Post by medicusitic on Nov 26, 2023 16:24:01 GMT
Why are we making stories based off a weekly comics from the 80s? They are dozens of worthy books to get an adaptation, but we are now remaking filler for a comic? was originally created by writers Pat Mills, John Wagner and artist Dave Gibbons - three giants of the UK comics scene. The story itself is a well written, humourous, beautifully illustrated comic strip from the early days of Doctor Who Weekly and is fondly remembered by many older fans. The comics medium is definitely a ' worthy' source of inspiration - comic books and graphic novels can often be more intelligent, and have more depth, power and entertainment value than an awful lot of films, novels or television shows . If Davies' adaptation of ' The Star Beast' fails (and it does, spectacularly), then it's not the fault of the original comic strip or its creators. |
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Post by cyberhat on Nov 26, 2023 16:26:50 GMT
1:32 in
I think Tennant has been watching this
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Post by rushy on Nov 26, 2023 16:45:32 GMT
As long as this new shit gets the rating and the fans it will continue but I feel a lot of damage was caused to NuWho due to the Jodie Whittaker era and it will take a lot for it to get back to it’s popularity again. It was all over after "Hell Bent" |
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Post by burrunjor on Nov 26, 2023 17:13:24 GMT
As long as this new shit gets the rating and the fans it will continue but I feel a lot of damage was caused to NuWho due to the Jodie Whittaker era and it will take a lot for it to get back to it’s popularity again. It was all over after "Hell Bent" Nah Death in Heaven was the point of no return. Hence why it shed 2 million after that episode and why since then it's only produced 4 seasons in almost 10 years. It basically is already a dead show walking that would have been axed a year after Death in Heaven if it wasn't. The BBC's darling Living off of quarter of a century and 7 years of success. Okay not all of those periods were big, but when it was big Dalekmania, Pertwee. Tom, Tennant, Smith even the first year of Davison it was one of the biggest shows in the UK. Meaning there is always potential for it to get back to that. Ideologically driven. Made by the elitists at the BBC who have it all sewn up. |
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Post by burrunjor on Nov 26, 2023 17:16:51 GMT
Well, that was well worth the wait - a great romp. Combined all the best elements of the Tennant, Smith and Capaldi eras. Tennant and Tate were on great form, an all time great Doctor-companion pairing. The TARDIS was glorious, the Meep was well realised and a great theme arrangement. Loved a transgender woman being brought in to it - seeing the gammon meltdown on twitter was hilarious. A solid start: 8/10. ![]()  The 60th anniversary just like Missy, Jodie and the Timeless Children was a suuucccceeeeeeessssssssss! |
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