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Post by iank on Oct 5, 2023 21:55:08 GMT
Okay boomer.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2023 21:55:38 GMT
Always thought Superman II was by far the best. Find the original a bit dull and the third a bit too silly but the second is basically perfect. Was always baffled by the need for a "Donner cut" when the original is sublime entertainment. Okay boomers. II is very good at juggling different things. It's got humour, romance, emotion, drama and action. Proper popcorn entertainment where you cheer at the end rather than feel depressed like I do with some of these moody modern superhero movies. |
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Post by iank on Oct 5, 2023 21:56:25 GMT
It's actual great fun without being completely moronic. Can't have that with some people. Only complete moronicity ala RTD is acceptable.  |
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Post by rushy on Oct 5, 2023 21:56:27 GMT
As Reeve himself noted, Richard Pryor's entire existence in a Superman film is out of place. I don't think so. He's playing a computer genius who ends up getting blackmailed to work for the baddies. I'm not sure why Pryor can't play such a role. Because he's too busy doing his shtick to play a believable or interesting character. Donner believed in verisimilitude i.e. being as realistic as possible within a ridiculous setting. He was one of the first if not THE first to treat superheroes as something other than a joke in the film medium. |
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Post by rushy on Oct 5, 2023 21:59:47 GMT
I don't mind a campfest - in fact, one of my favourite films is Texas Chainsaw Part 2, where Tobe Hooper turned the grisly horror of the original into a complete joke. But he did it by staying true to the characters and the setting he'd created. It's just the absurdism that got amped up to 11.
Not just turning everything into a corny sketch comedy with no context. That's just devolving your subject material for cheap laughs.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2023 22:01:24 GMT
Always thought Superman II was by far the best. Find the original a bit dull and the third a bit too silly but the second is basically perfect. Was always baffled by the need for a "Donner cut" when the original is sublime entertainment. Okay boomers. Tbf there isn't, it was always a good movie. It's just the Donner cut elevates it from "good movie" to "one of the best superhero motion pictures". Tightened editing (massively improving the final battle in particular), better opening sequence, better takes. Donner restored a brilliant bit of comedy in the White House, from the female villain. A lovely bit of dark humour that fits the film far better than Lester's corny rubbish. The Donner version makes no sense, though. The turning the world back ending is used meaning that the bully in the diner scene never happened. It makes it look like Clark is just randomly picking fights with people at the end of the film when he goes back there. The turning the world back bit makes little to no sense either. Why not just do that in the first place? I prefer the amnesia kiss... |
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Post by iank on Oct 5, 2023 22:02:23 GMT
Yeah that is so dumb and lazy. People prefer that crap, really?
Goodness me.
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Post by rushy on Oct 5, 2023 22:05:29 GMT
The Donner version makes no sense, though. The turning the world back ending is used meaning that the bully in the diner scene never happened. It makes it look like Clark is just randomly picking fights with people at the end of the film when he goes back there. The turning the world back bit makes little to no sense either. Why not just do that in the first place? I prefer the amnesia kiss... They're both daft endings. I don't see why one is sillier than the other. But I don't think Clark really cares about how he's seen in that scene. The bully is still an awful person and still deserved it. |
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Post by rushy on Oct 5, 2023 22:07:14 GMT
It's actual great fun without being completely moronic. Can't have that with some people. Only complete moronicity ala RTD is acceptable. Not to get too real, but I fail to see why you're being so patronising about something as simple as differing movie and TV opinions. |
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Post by iank on Oct 5, 2023 22:08:27 GMT
Okay boomer.
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Post by burrunjor on Oct 5, 2023 22:08:39 GMT
Pretty sure his parents are killed in every version.  Besides, I don't even care whether they INTENDED it to be a continuation at the time... the first two movies were Tim Burton's vision of Batman. Without him it's clearly something else entirely. I think he even came out and derided The Flash recently, noting that others using his Batman without any input from him was a form of cultural appropriation. He's not wrong. Yes, but his parents weren't killed by the Joker in every version. In fact, I think Burton's version was the first to have him be the killer (please correct me if I'm wrong, nerds) Yes you're right it is a deliberate nod to the Joker. They don't mention him by name, but when he says they were killed by a maniac we know he means Jack Napier, as the usual killer of Batman's parents Joe Chill is not a lunatic, but a gunman who accidentally kills his parents when the gun goes off against Martha and he fires in fear when Thomas tries to attack. (In some the gun goes off and kills only Thomas, whilst Martha's weak heart gives in at the shock of seeing her husband die.) Jack Napier meanwhile kills both for sadistic fun and laughs as he is doing it. Forever is clearly following on from that, and to be honest I'd argue that it wouldn't work without knowing that it was a maniac that killed Bruce's parents rather than just a generic thug. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2023 22:18:28 GMT
The Donner version makes no sense, though. The turning the world back ending is used meaning that the bully in the diner scene never happened. It makes it look like Clark is just randomly picking fights with people at the end of the film when he goes back there. The turning the world back bit makes little to no sense either. Why not just do that in the first place? I prefer the amnesia kiss... They're both daft endings. I don't see why one is sillier than the other. But I don't think Clark really cares about how he's seen in that scene. The bully is still an awful person and still deserved it. He does deserve it, but that guy could easily threaten Clark with legal action for attacking him unprovoked and breaking his hand. At least in the Lester cut its "Round 2" between the two characters. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2023 22:24:27 GMT
It's actual great fun without being completely moronic. Can't have that with some people. Only complete moronicity ala RTD is acceptable. Not to get too real, but I fail to see why you're being so patronising about something as simple as differing movie and TV opinions. I wouldn't take it to heart. I think some of us are a bit opinionated by nature. There are worse people outside the forum who practically put on their suicide vests whenever anyone criticises a film they like (not naming any- SNYDER FANS) |
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Post by rushy on Oct 5, 2023 22:32:17 GMT
No, I mean it. You don't have to respect RTD or the Donner cut or whatever, everyone's absolutely entitled to their POV on all that. But mocking people around you for what they enjoy is not cool. It doesn't make you funny or clever, it just makes you look like a smug jackass. I'm asking you politely not to do that. He does deserve it, but that guy could easily threaten Clark with legal action for attacking him unprovoked and breaking his hand. At least in the Lester cut its "Round 2" between the two characters. The diner was located on the other side of America. Clark could easily just fly back to Metropolis and get witnesses to confirm that he couldn't possibly have been there. If the guy even manages to identify him. I wouldn't take it to heart. I think some of us are a bit opinionated by nature. There are worse people outside the forum who practically put on their suicide vests whenever anyone criticises a film they like (not naming any- SNYDER FANS) It's okay, I don't mind people defending their arguments and having fun with it. But life's too short to sit back and take someone's bullshit attitude on the chin. Being corrected is the only way people learn how to behave. Some learn it later than others. |
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Post by burrunjor on Oct 5, 2023 22:45:01 GMT
I have 0 problem with Iank, but let's not bring someone's opinions of DW into other discussions as then we make it look like one group of fans isn't welcome here.
I mean hey if I can get over Rushy's opinions about Gina Carano, you all can get over him liking the RTD era, which I also can enjoy too.
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