Is Series 2 actually better than Series 1?

[rushy]

No no no no
not in a million years
absolutely not
we are not going there
this is not happening
IS COFFEE ICE CREAM BETTER THAN CHOCOLATE CHIP?!?!?!?

[Deleted]

Na, you're good mate. William Hill ain't really my scene.

[burrunjor]

Hard to say. Eccelston is less Doctor like, but to be fair so is Tennant and I think Billie actually worked better with Eccelston. Meanwhile series 2 has better individual episodes, the Satan two parter, the Cybermen two parter, the season finale, the Werewolf episode, all better than anything in season 1 to be honest. Even the Sarah Jane one, whilst mawkish in places is an enjoyable romp with a top actor as the villain.

However season 2 also has greater lows. New Earth is far worse than the first year five billion episode, Idiots Lantern is dreadful. Worst thing Gattiss ever wrote for the series. (I'm normally a big fan of his, but this was badly thought out.)

Love and Monsters meanwhile is the worst of the entire RTD era. Leaving aside how gross, stupid, and plain boring it is. The way it treats Ian Levine, mocking him in a show he loved so much and where he will forever be immortalised as a gross, obese monster is really low of Russell. Don't know why he did it in all honesty? What beef did he have with Ian? It seems like he was just embarrassed to have him as a fan and decided it would be good to disassociate him from fandom. Honestly reeked of a nerdy kid being accepted by the cool kid and then bullying his former uncool friend to keep in. 

Overall series 1 doesn't reach s2's highs, but it doesn't plumb its depths and has a better TARDIS team.

[iank]

No.

[RobFilth]

For reasons I can't be arsed to go into, yes.

Roses character is bloody annoying in Series 2 however, what was the strongest link in Series 1 becomes the weakest link in Series 2.

[Deleted]

Aug 10, 2023 15:06:53 GMT burrunjor said:

Hard to say. Eccelston is less Doctor like, but to be fair so is Tennant and I think Billie actually worked better with Eccelston. Meanwhile series 2 has better individual episodes, the Satan two parter, the Cybermen two parter, the season finale, the Werewolf episode, all better than anything in season 1 to be honest. Even the Sarah Jane one, whilst mawkish in places is an enjoyable romp with a top actor as the villain.

However season 2 also has greater lows. New Earth is far worse than the first year five billion episode, Idiots Lantern is dreadful. Worst thing Gattiss ever wrote for the series. (I'm normally a big fan of his, but this was badly thought out.)

Love and Monsters meanwhile is the worst of the entire RTD era. Leaving aside how gross, stupid, and plain boring it is. The way it treats Ian Levine, mocking him in a show he loved so much and where he will forever be immortalised as a gross, obese monster is really low of Russell. Don't know why he did it in all honesty? What beef did he have with Ian? It seems like he was just embarrassed to have him as a fan and decided it would be good to disassociate him from fandom. Honestly reeked of a nerdy kid being accepted by the cool kid and then bullying his former uncool friend to keep in. 

Overall series 1 doesn't reach s2's highs, but it doesn't plumb its depths and has a better TARDIS team.

I enjoy the amusing Radio Times review of Love and Monsters. The reviewer desperately tries to convince everyone it's some sort of mini offbeat "masterpiece" and that people don't like it because it "holds a mirror up to them." He give it five stars. He only gave Remembrance three!

[Spark Doll King]

In hindsight no. Despite my opinion on Eccelston, and the fact that some of nuwho problems have their infancy during this season, the fact the show was starting fresh and had to impress ment RTD had to play it relatively safe. Farting, pervert aliens withstanding of course. This caution helps keep things on track inbetween the those moments of RTD madness and keeps it watchable.

Season 2 is when everyone's ego went out of control and it shows.

[Deleted]

The RTD era is going to be re-released on Blu ray with every episode being remastered. I hope the episodes play at the right speed on this set.

[iank]

I could tell zero difference with the other one.

[Deleted]

Aug 20, 2023 22:25:56 GMT iank said:

I could tell zero difference with the other one.

I bought the Series 1 Blu ray and it's awful. The speed issue is one thing, but the "upscaling"  is pratically non-existent. 

[iank]

Undoubtedly.

[Cherry Pepsi Maxil]

I think Series 1 is slightly better because of the episodes it doesn't have. Series 2 delivered the very worst of the Tennant era and it's hard to call it a good series when a lot of it is trash.  Even the "great" stories like The Impossible Planet and Doomsday are OK at best. I think the run between Tooth and Claw to Age of Steel is perfectly acceptable television, but it really goes off the rails with The Idiot's Latern.  Series 1 has an inferior Doctor, but a much better arc and to be honest the finale blows Doomsday out of the water. Like with Series 2, the "great" episodes just don't do anything for me barring the aforementioned finale. It doesn't have a godsmackingly awful episode like Fear Her although The End of the World is still bollocks.

[Ludders II]

No.
There's no NuWho season worse than S2 until the advent of Missy.

[burrunjor]

Mar 19, 2024 5:00:11 GMT Ludders II said:

No.
There's no NuWho season worse than S2 until the advent of Missy.

It really is depressing the way official fandom gushes over her. Again when I see youtubers or guys on these official geek sites absolutely trash villains like Jared Leto's Joker or Topher Grace's Venom for being unfaithful and poor representations of villains it makes me furious to then see them then say she was the best Master, and repeat the "accepted" mantra that she is a hugely popular character, (despite the fact that viewers collapsed literally as soon as she showed up. The big drop off is season 8-9 NOT season 7-8. I'm not saying it was entirely her, but she certainly helped.)

I say all this as someone who didn't even like Jared Leto's Joker btw. Well he was good in the Snyder cut, but not Suicide Squad. Still at least he was an actual version of the Joker. Missy had literally nothing in common with the character of the Master at all. It's not fair that she gets protection, just because she is the female version of a character. That's not equality, in fact it's insulting to the female villains like Callisto, Alti, Glory, Catwoman, Bet Sykes who DID become genuinely popular without any political crap. We need to hold female villains, and female characters in general to the same high quality we do male villains, and sorry but anyone who has the cheek to say Eric Roberts was too camp, or Leto's Joker didn't get the character and then praise Missy is guilty of the soft bigotry of low expectations, simple as that. (I'm not saying you can't like Missy in general as much as I hate the character, but it needs acknowledged that yeah, that's not the Master and that lots of classic fans HATE her for that.)

Furthermore she was as I've been over in other threads a dated, offensive caricature of a female villain anyway, that's the best thing about her. My god you really would think feminism had never happened in the genre, not that she was supposed to be pandering to it LOL when you compare Missy to female villains like my beloved Alti or Glory or Faith. It's funny because Paloma Faith when cast as the villain Bet Sykes in Pennyworth (a great show btw you should check it out) was given a lot of creative freedom over the part and said a few things she absolutely did NOT want. 

For her villain to just be in love with the male hero and have no other motivations but sucking his D. 

For her villain to not just be a femme fatale who only uses her sexuality to confuse him, rather than threaten him like any villain would, with her mind, weapons, because she's nuts etc. 

For her villain not to be "the female villain" IE defined entirely by her gender. Obviously yes that can play a part, and Bet is still very feminine, but she ultimately isn't defined that way. 

Paloma felt all of these tropes were outdated, and insulting to women. Again with this in mind can you imagine what she would make of Missy LOL. She just wouldn't play the part, simple as that. (God forbid she or anyone else touch a line of the Fitzroy Crowd's precious writing.) 

The question is though why does Missy get seen as empowering and if you hate her, you're just scared of strong women? Yeah I'm really threatened by a female villain that if I was the hero, her whole motivation would be to be with me, would be beaten by giving me a Cyber army that I could just politely decline, and who I had to rescue from baddies and burst into tears when I went into big god awful speeches about being kind. Yep a lot more threatening to me than the female villains I watched as a child, like Glory who tortured a beloved male character almost to death, or Alti who could make me experience the pain of 10000s of lifetimes just by looking at me, and would regard me as an ant in her quest for power. 

Still maybe the cracks are finally starting to show as on Gallifrey Reddit I did a big post trashing her (among other things in new who) that actually proved quite popular! The most hilarious thing though was get this, one fan of Missy actually said to me that I was trying to hard to be woke and progressive in my criticism of Missy! LMFAO That truly did make me wonder if I fell into a backwards universe. 

[rushy]

But Burun, she's the closest we've got to Roger Delgado, that's got to count for something. XD