Was Doctor Who Stagnant in 1985?

[Deleted]

This is a popular criticism I've heard from people accusing  the show of being sluggish and running out of ideas. I don't think this is true,  at least not in the script department. Obviously there are themes and in Varos that are still relevant today and Revelation is filled to the brim with witty dark humour and wonderfully weird ideas  (like having a DJ broadcasting at a funeral home). Unfortunately half of the season is spoilt  by workmanlike direction. I feel Varos would have been much better had it not been for Ron Jones and his boring style of directing. Still, I do think some stories look quite glossy like Revelation and Mark of the Rani. Even The Two Doctors, whilst not being brilliantly directed itself, still has the visual appeal of Spain.  

[rushy]

I felt the 80s were a slog until season 23. There used to be a naturalistic attitude to the writing of the Doctor, the companions and the villains. They had little personality quirks, in-jokes, wore random clothes they'd picked up that day. But the characters in the 80s often felt like action figures to me. They wear costumes instead of clothes, their dialogue and plot sounds like a computer wrote it and many of their conflicts came off like a writer trying to decide "what conflict should a Doctor Who episode have" rather than letting one arise through believable circumstances.

Colin, as much as I love him, was so over the top he might as well have been a cartoon.

The constant reuse of old villains-references, whilst understandable in season 20, did eventually begin to seem desperate. Especially if you look at the original season 23. The Master and the Rani and the Autons in Singapore? That's cancellation fodder. And none of them are really developed. It's just a reuse of iconic imagery without much depth. Davros is the worst example of this, a villain that has never been good on TV apart from Genesis.

Things turned around in Trial of a Time Lord. It's a mess, but there's finally some flair and unique ideas again. I love the twist of the Mysterious Planet, Mindwarp is insane, Terror of the Vervoids is just a fun murder mystery. The Ultimate Foe has some cool new additions to the lore. It feels like from that point forward, the show stops trying so hard to be cool and iconic, and instead goes back to having fun. The McCoy era is a goldmine of invention, and has some of the most cinematic pacing of the entire series.

So, yeah. I love 1980 and 1986-1989. Not so big on 1981-1985. I respect Davison and Colin as Doctors, but I really have to pick at their eras for good content, like a particularly bony fish.

[Brian MK.II]

Far from it. Season 22 is arguably one of the most daring seasons of the classic series, striking a balance with more old school elements such as a more no-nonsense, take no bullshit Doctor in Colin as well as returning foes mixed with stories with heavier material and a more satirical dark comedy streak in the vein of Paul Verhoeven and 2000AD.  Sadly, despite being on the production side one of the most polished and visually striking seasons of the classic series and arguably 80s Who, it's only foible (despite Timelash, which is really no different from any other season's ''cheap episode'') is it's largely helmed by flat direction. Other than that, it's 80s Who at it's most bold and daring, pushing the limits to what they can get away with and whilst I can agree to disagree on most Who opinions, most of the reasons people give for trashing 22 is just fandom repeating debunked received wisdom exposing their sheeplike nature.

Now, if Trial aired in 85, I'd be convinced but it didn't so what I said above stands.

[Deleted]

Oct 6, 2022 14:39:20 GMT rushy said:

I felt the 80s were a slog until season 23. There used to be a naturalistic attitude to the writing of the Doctor, the companions and the villains. They had little personality quirks, in-jokes, wore random clothes they'd picked up that day. But the characters in the 80s often felt like action figures to me. They wear costumes instead of clothes, their dialogue and plot sounds like a computer wrote it and many of their conflicts came off like a writer trying to decide "what conflict should a Doctor Who episode have" rather than letting one arise through believable circumstances.

Colin, as much as I love him, was so over the top he might as well have been a cartoon.

The constant reuse of old villains-references, whilst understandable in season 20, did eventually begin to seem desperate. Especially if you look at the original season 23. The Master and the Rani and the Autons in Singapore? That's cancellation fodder. And none of them are really developed. It's just a reuse of iconic imagery without much depth. Davros is the worst example of this, a villain that has never been good on TV apart from Genesis.

Things turned around in Trial of a Time Lord. It's a mess, but there's finally some flair and unique ideas again. I love the twist of the Mysterious Planet, Mindwarp is insane, Terror of the Vervoids is just a fun murder mystery. The Ultimate Foe has some cool new additions to the lore. It feels like from that point forward, the show stops trying so hard to be cool and iconic, and instead goes back to having fun. The McCoy era is a goldmine of invention, and has some of the most cinematic pacing of the entire series.

So, yeah. I love 1980 and 1986-1989. Not so big on 1981-1985. I respect Davison and Colin as Doctors, but I really have to pick at their eras for good content, like a particularly bony fish.

"The McCoy era is a goldmine of invention, and has some of the most cinematic pacing of the entire series."

This.

[iank]

No, it's just another BS argument by closet Stockholm Syndrome cases who just can't accept that Grade was just a costcutting c**t with no actual reason for what he did beyond saving money and being a Thatcherite twat who wanted to sweep away everything old. 
Season 22 remains head and shoulders above most of the 80s (and almost all of New Who).

[Clayton Dickman]

Oct 6, 2022 14:39:20 GMT rushy said:

Or in an end-of pier pantomine.
 

[Clayton Dickman]

Oct 6, 2022 14:39:20 GMT rushy said:

As a young and confused Mx, the potential Auton return was something I actually felt excided about and hoped Yellow Fever...could be resurrected.

[Deleted]

Perhaps calling a story set in Singapore "Yellow Fever" wasn't the wisest decision.

[Deleted]

Who knows how good it could have been. The Ice Warriors would have returned in that season too as well as the Toymaker. I'm getting excited just talking about it. We got screwed over in the end really.

[Deleted]

I am thankful that the show got away from the shopping list approach in the McCoy era. We actually got some cool, new villains like The Destroyer, Morgaine, Fenric, the Haemovores and The Gods of Ragnarok. Even the Bannermen are pretty ace.

[Spark Doll King]

I don't think so, all but one of it's stories were great, and I think Timelash, while not good, has a reputation that exceeds it's quality.

It's reuse of old enemies resulted in some of the best stories the Cybermen and Daleks have ever had, and while the sontarans get a bit shortchanged in the Two Doctors, it's still a great story.

If it has any flaws they seem to stem more from the brewing conflict behind the scenes, which would completely f*ck over season 23 the next year then from the show going stagnant.